@rysiek ¯\(°_o)/¯

and how well does it compress?
having run-time compression, or block-level deduplication would save you a lot of space.

i just don't think that optimising for space, is the best idea, when the default operation of software is failure.

@hirojin sure. On the other hand, 99% of users would never use the debug symbols, at all. And if you want them, apt install whatever-package-dbg, and go wild.

Instead of forcing 10× larger software packages on users, perhaps we should fix the software in the first place. ;)

@rysiek what's there to fix when there's no bug reports?

if you have to click thru and type in your password to install debug symbols on the fly when something crashes so you can send out a sensible *automated* bug report, you'll just hit cancel.

so if we agree that failure is the default — why are we making debugging so hard, by default??

@hirojin because I do not have 130GiB of space just for the operating system I am using:
/dev/nvme0n1p1 15G 13G 1.1G 93% /

And I doubt most users do.

Fixing software doesn't have to be a reactive (i.e. "oh, bugrep, let's see") thing. It *should* be a proactive (i.e. good design, good coding practices) thing.

@hirojin bugreps from users are the very last line of defense. Most of bugs should be caught earlier in the process, or not introduced in the first place.

And in no small part we know how to do this. We just choose not to because it's hard, takes more time, etc.

So how about we programmers don't punish the users for our own laziness.

@rysiek think of games for instance: you release a new feature today, and by tomorrow you have a million testers, with a million different systems combinations — hardware, os, software, drivers.

there's no way to cover that for a developer or even a team.

FLOSS is worse, in that you usually deliver *source* and somebody's gotta build it first. The combinations are even bigger here, but the delay is so much worse.

@rysiek our developerment process — and our debugging process, is still firmly stuck in the 70s, and mostly focuses on a single machine.

@hirojin so, again, let's find ways to fix that, instead of forcing users to install a 100+ GiB of debugging symbols.