when i upgrade linux, i see all these packages whizzing by, all this shit that i do NOT want on my system, and im DISGUSTED
one of the big dependencies for running linux is that the user must care about linux. if you dont care about all the different versions and packages and stuff, if you don't really LOVE to keep up to date on all of that? it'll detect it. it knows. it can smell it. and it will NOT be happy
when i upgrade linux, it breaks linux. ive never not had updating or upgrading linux not break linux. its just how linux works - it breaks. im sorry if thats not your experience. maybe im not upgrading or updating it frequently enough? how often am i supposed to update it. am i supposed to endure my system breaking every week??? every day???? im sorry that doesnt sound very productive
@jk linux only wants one thing and it's fucking disgusting
@jk My pet hate with the install/upgrade process for #Ubuntu is when you require a minimal install/upgrade but the installer installs a load of packages that then get removed again at the end of the process. If I've asked for a minimal install don't install the extra packages in the first place, that's just _my_ time-wasting!
@tuh @PhotonQyv i use arch & debian, and debian breaks whenever i update it, whereas arch only broke once when updating it and it stopped my screen from working. i fixed it by putting xrandr commands in about eight different scripts until x would start properly again. been rock solid ever since, because i havent dared update it after that
Just recently had to work around a recent break between Focal and Eoan.
Since Ubuntu are gradually phasing all the Python 2.7 stuff, I've had to dig the pyGTK libraries out of Eoan DEBs so that I can continue to use my version of Gimp 2.10.18 with python plug-ins.
Also in the past I built my own version of GCC so I could make sure all the stuff I build from source would continue to work when I moved from Disco to Eoan.
Upgrading can be hard work at times (;*
@jk I find Windows does that too. Windows Update just breaks my machine. Windows and Linux updates find different ways to break my machine. They are delightfully consistent in that regard. macOS updates never break my machine but do find ways to introduce lots of little slightly broken things.
@rodti i dont usually have windows break my machine but it now and again changes things that i spent ages customizing, which is almost more annoying? whereas linux upgrades keep all the tiny specific things the same but change the big ones!
@jk @rodti Xubuntu added some extra buttons to the login screen in 19.10 for extra functionality, but during our upgrade from 19.04, those buttons were never added. It was only after doing a fresh install of 19.10 a couple months later that we realized things should look different.
So yeah, both have issues with configuration updates, and neither seem capable of taking the "update the config if it matches the old default, but ask if it's different" approach.
@jk you need an lts system and should use system76 pop-os or ubuntu
@nemo i thought ubuntu was supposed to be evil? also i thought system76 was supposed to be bad too. maybe theyre just overpriced. i dunno i don't keep up with this stuff
@jk nope ubuntu is not evil they had one issue with the amazon button thats it nothing else maybe popularity contest to but thats it, you can use popos for free work even on an thinkpad x230 out of the box config needed.
Both, but especially the latter, have also a habit of not contributing back to upstream.
I stopped using Debian over a decade ago and had given up on packaging for it even earlier.
Mine's #OpenSUSE both on desktop and server, if you're curious.
@jk for sercer systems ubuntu server or debian
@nemo i use debian on my server. currently upgrading it from 8 to 9
@nemo im not a new user! ive been using debian for 11 years and i think it's always been broken somehow. whenever i fix it somehow it gets broken again. its usually because they keep changing some server config on their end and it won't upgrade and i have to fuck around with it like im doing now
@jk yeah the fruits of infinity gnu, unfortunately one needs a very strong community and a little bit of money like suse, centos, ubuntu, you could try centos its rock solid and also redhat binary compatible?
@jk I use Fedora at home and Ubuntu at work and Ubuntu breaks slightly after every update. With Fedora I crossed 4 or 5 major updates and it didn't shit itself still and I son?r understand why because your experience sounds more like mine throughout the years
@jk I run Arch Linux on my server and have a cron job that updates it on daily at midnight
@jk what distro are you using?
I use Fedora and it just works™
@jk What distribution are you using?
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