@jpmens with the last update it was mandated to create an account with Sonos for "security" reasons. Since that moment I have removed all Sonos equipment from our house, sold it and moved to Naim and Bose speakers. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Sonos...

One last thing... their get-my-data-out-of-your-effing-system process suuuuuuucks...

@mischa I’m quoting you (anonymously) in my post.

@jpmens feel free! They know how I feel about their policy changes and processes. :)

@jpmens +1 to this. After years of Sonos ownership I'm now in the market for different speakers.

@jpmens Some years ago I also had a Sonos test setup at home. Somehow, I got a bad feeling about speakers directly connected to the internet, so I bought Bose stuff. Lost much convenience but won privacy.

Now I am thinking about Yamaha WXC equipment, seems to be more privacy friendly

@_xhr_ I’ve added your comment (anonymously) to my post; thank you.

@jpmens Seems its not going well for Sonos at the moment. Top news of the day: They lost a 5th of their stock market value yesterday.

@jpmens Wow. Makes me glad all my IoT devices are locked up on a non-Internet VLAN.

@mwlucas question is whether the whole system can survive at all in a glass wall; I just don’t know. Maybe the apps are time-bombed and if they can’t get updates in time T they stop alltogether.

@mwlucas @jpmens i use Sonos with Spotify and bandcamp, so no internet is no option. :-/

@FiLiS @mwlucas @jpmens no SoNOs is always an option. We moved to Naim and Bose.

@mischa @mwlucas @jpmens doesn't Bose phone home as well? I heard crazy stuff about their QC35 app. What Naim/Bose devices did you choose?

@FiLiS @mwlucas @jpmens we went for the Bose Soundlink Mini II (BT use) for moving around and work rooms and two Naim Mu-so Qb for the living room. I am also considering the Mu-so and move one Qb elsewhere. The UX is a little less, Spotify on Naim is a little iffy, but a small price to pay imo.

@mischa @FiLiS @jpmens I suspect whatever smart speaker system you get, you'll need to do some packet sniffing and filtering.

@mwlucas @FiLiS @jpmens absolutely... for me it does start with "do no evil" and go from there. ;)

@mischa @mwlucas @FiLiS @jpmens

Is it possible to firewall it so that Sonos can't make any contact with external servers/networks or does that prevent the device from working at all?

@h3artbl33d @mwlucas @FiLiS @jpmens of course you can, but I am guessing that will prevent the speaker from functioning at one point. Seeing the need for data-collection they have now... and it would prevent services like Spotify from working. Which I am using as I made the choice to use the service, I have not asked for my hardware vendor to do this.

@mischa @mwlucas @FiLiS @jpmens

True that. Guess you don't have a huge music library sitting in local storage?

Using proprietary / hosted services always leaves the possibility that behavior is tracked. If not now, then perhaps with an update.

For those whom are concerned about this - without an alternative, check out Pi MusicBox (Linux, yikes), hook it up to a speaker and take back your privacy: pimusicbox.com/

@h3artbl33d @mwlucas @FiLiS @jpmens I stopped collecting music some time ago. Streaming a source to a speaker is always an option. :)

@mischa @h3artbl33d @FiLiS @jpmens I always buy MP3 albums, to support the artist. But maybe I'm biased there.

And last I checked, much of my older music wasn't on streaming.

@mwlucas @mischa @h3artbl33d @FiLiS I digitized all our CDs a long time ago, and we buy new music as MP3.

@jpmens @mwlucas @h3artbl33d @FiLiS been there done that... but I stopped adding to the library. All the MP3s are stuck on a FreeNAS Mini somewhere in the house. ;)

@mischa @jpmens @mwlucas @FiLiS

I won't ask you whether you are familiar with the concept of redundancy - because I know you are 😉

@jpmens @mischa @h3artbl33d @FiLiS Yep!

I still have ~6k CDs crated in the basement. Don't want to throw them out. Plus, they're my licenses.

@mischa @jpmens @h3artbl33d @FiLiS I listen to a lot of fringe music.

What is streamed, is at crap quality. There's a *world* of difference between Nurse With Wound on Spotify vs hi-res MP3.

@mwlucas @mischa @jpmens @FiLiS

That - and licensing deals for streaming music have an expiry date. Already noticed music magically vanishing off Spotify, Deezer, Tidal and other streaming platforms.

@mwlucas @mischa @h3artbl33d @FiLiS when I said I digitized I did not say I threw them out. Same reason.

@jpmens @mischa @h3artbl33d @FiLiS The next generation is going to use our precious CD collections as skeet targets.

@mwlucas @jpmens @mischa @h3artbl33d I told my kids to be super careful what they throw out when I die. Some vinyl is pretty valuable. CDs are just in boxes for licensing reasons, I would probably throw them out in a heartbeat. Spotify is mostly a convenience for pre-listening stuff I might buy ("Oh, the new Metallica album sucks, who would have thought") and for when I'm away from home.

@mwlucas @jpmens @mischa @FiLiS Wow. Damn. I have a majestic collection, the physical albums are safely stored in a storage unit. If I'd use the basement, I am sure my neighbours living a level lower won't appreciate that. Unfortunately.

@jpmens @mwlucas @mischa @FiLiS

I am able to hear the difference - even between 320CBR and FLAC. But it depends on multiple factors, the speakers are only a part of it. Simple example: everything by hipster brand 'Beats' has an overdriven bass. More in depth, there are factors like which DAC is being used.

Hearing does get less when age increases. When I come at the point I can't hear the difference, I have something to leave my children 😉

@mischa @mwlucas @FiLiS @jpmens

It's one of the reasons I require ZFS. Every album I bought in a physical shape, I have digitized to FLAC. Whether that be CDs, Vinyl, etc. Where possible I directly purchased the digital version.

I don't "do" MP3, not even 320kbit. Want to achieve them with all the quality I acquired them in.

Unfortunately, right now, the only setup allowing me to hear the difference are HiFi earbuds.

@jpmens Thank you for posting this. I was considering getting a Sonos system for my home, but after seeing that (especially the snippet from their "privacy" policy!) I think I'll just stick with my current mix of an unmanaged, app-free Bluetooth speaker and a couple of wired receivers.

A little bit of convenience is hardly worth giving up that much information.

@spectere I have now clarified in the post that it’s possible to opt out of that data collection. To be fair.

@jpmens Much appreciated!

Regardless, it's still ridiculous that they seemingly tried to sneak that past everyone, and that you had to even opt out of it at all. Unless you're, say, monitoring a child's listening habits (which should be strictly opt-in!) I don't even see what purpose that sort of collection serves outside of marketing.

About the only plus I'll give Sonos in this case is that they appear to be very transparent about what they collect.

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