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jrm4

@jrm4

Because straight men are specifically who I'm talking to right now.

I do this sometimes. Sometimes I'm only talking to Black folk. Sometimes only men. Sometimes only straight men. Sometimes only football players. Sometimes only people that work in tech. Sometimes only people that work in tech and hire people. Etc etc.

I'm not talking about situational power in general. I'm talking about this specific kind.

If you want to make a more general thread, you're more than welcome to do that.

@mekkaokereke

Fair, but I can also do it *here,* which I am.

I personally *do* believe these lessons go down better when you stick with generally applicable lessons and "sins" that anyone can concievably commit -- even if they're disproportionately committed (which you should, of course, note)

(the thing you're doing sounds a bit condescending to my ears, though I suppose a lot of people are weirdly into that these days IDK)

@jrm4

It might feel condescending, because you might not be used to this type of interaction:

Me: Says [thing].

You: Why didn't you say [other thing]?

Me: Because I wanted to say [thing]. You are free to say [other thing] elsewhere.

You: No! I'm going to say [other thing] here!

Suppose I wasn't being condescending, but only wanted to say [thing], and didn't want to say [other thing]. How might I have responded better?

@mekkaokereke

If you're letting me pick it apart, I think

"A thing straight men really need to consider"

just comes off WAY WAY WAY better than

"This thread is for straight men only."

No it isn't, everyone can see it :)

@mekkaokereke

And the more I think about it -- this is a really "people of Mastodon-centric" thing that people want that I think is kind of silly at best and offputting at worst.

Starting a thread in a public place like Mastodon in *no way* gives one any inherent right to strongly control it.

That's the .. price? of having a PUBLIC conversation.

One can certainly talk etiquette, but one is not entitled "king of the thread" status?

(edited to be less fingerpointy)

@jrm4

I might be wrong, but from reading your responses, I don't think the problem is me being "condescending?"

I think you take issue with my focusing on this specific type of abuse of situational power, without simultaneously talking about other forms of situational power. I think you feel like I'm calling out men.

Because I am.🤷🏿‍♂️

I think you take issue with me talking directly to men that don't act on situational power, and not *all people*.

Again, because that is exactly what I'm doing.

@jrm4

I also don't think that the problem is that people that aren't straight men feel excluded from this thread. People that aren't straight men have been listening in (err... reading?) and commenting, and it's been fine.

I think that there's a deep discomfort with a straight man calling out other straight men for not knowing how to act in a situation where a straight man abuses situational power right in front of us.

Bluntly, I think that discomfort is a big problem with the world.

@mekkaokereke

From reading this: I think -- like I said before -- I'm probably picking apart (perhaps unnecessarily) literally just your first sentence and "how you're approaching it" -- and I'll acknowledge that I might be being too nitpicky here?

I take no issue with wanting to address just straight men, I just feel like saying "HEY STRAIGHT MEN LISTEN UP" like never works :)

but again, maybe i'm old and it does

@jrm4 @mekkaokereke A man addressing a group of men about a man being sexist, in a straightforward manner, is condescending? Idk, as a straight dude I think this may be a you problem.

@jrm4 @mekkaokereke dude, your 'whataboutism' is acting in service of protecting a sexual harasser right now. This IS a part of toxic masculinity and rape culture that specifically involves cis men targeting women and using the structures of cis heteronormative power to maintain control.

It doesn't mean that what Lizzo did isn't wrong, it does mean that to mention it here is a derail and part of what's being critiqued.

In short, it sucks, and you're being a creep. Stop it.

@RubyJones @mekkaokereke

The only thing that "sucks" here is your hamfisted intent to shut someone down.

Disagree with my take if you must, but chill with the namecalling and the whole "shut-up" thing.