@risabee@social.coop
I know of some municipalities that helped turned utilities into coops but I don't see why you'd want to use an economic system (coops) to run a political/administrative body. If you are familiar with Rojava than I'm sure you're familiar with their administrative units. And hopefully also familiar with Bookchin. Councils, assemblies, congresses are much better for bringing various stakeholders into conv and decision making than coops

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@risabee@social.coop
"Despite their poor record as a force for social change, cooperatives still hold an appeal for many well intentioned people, who continue to look to them as a viable alternative to capitalism. Although cooperation is unquestionably a necessary part of the solution, cooperatives by themselves are insufficient to challenge the capitalist system.”  – Murray Bookchin
Also this:
biehlonbookchin.com/municipali

@kavbojka Poor record AS OPPOSED TO WHAT!? Wish these lefties who disdain co-ops for their impurity could show a better functioning solution. (Shouting at Murray, not at you, Camille.) @risabee

@tbeckett
I've had this dustup before. Must find the link... I don't think Murray's complaint is about impurity. Most coops are liberal capitalist efforts. Simply not radical or revolutionary. It's just a fact.
@risabee@social.coop

@kavbojka Co-ops are functioning socialist enterprises in a capitalist economy. People are exercising control over their own economic circumstances through collective ownership, not rent-seeking. You can call it liberal capitalism but it wouldn’t be accurate. @risabee

Well, there's this:

mastodon.social/@kavbojka/9929

I think criticism like this is constructive, on the whole. But generally it seems not specifically anti-coop, just about how coops can fail at their aims, because they have to compete to exist.

@tbeckett @risabee @kavbojka

Bookchin's in the queue for my full attention, but there's a lot of competition. I need a podcast I can play whilst doing housework.

So far I found this:

revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.

@kavbojka @risabee @tbeckett

@tbeckett because someone retooted it i want to disagree here. In germany by law an Genossenschaft is not always a socialist enterprise and even rent-seeking is possible. The housing marked is partly dominated by COOPs, which are run as normal capitalist companies. the democracy part is minimized and not full blown,you pay for entry. The rent is distributed among different levels, some for (re-)investment, other for the CEOs of the Genossenschaft. What i want to say: It depends on implementation

@syndikalista @tbeckett @kavbojka I would agree. I think a (properly functioning) worker co-op would qualify as a socialist model, but a consumer or producer co-op would not.

As for (worker) co-ops bringing about social change, it's certainly a slow approach, but it shouldn't be dismissed.

@Steve @tbeckett well, there are ways to implement a producers or consumer coop which are not worker centric and still have a socialist approach. but it is up to today even hard to imagine worker coops.

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