This is problematic.

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@kiwix yeah man. What are those people in Greenland thinking?

@kiwix even moreso because Edge is chromium based too. The only major browsers, that aren't chromium based, are safari and firefox if I'm not mistaken.

@butcher @kiwix Safari isn't even a million miles from Chromium either, given Blink was essentially forked from WebKit.

@kiwix Seems like I'm old-fashioned then for still using Firefox and Opera.

@hexxyness @minekpo1 Used Opera in the mid to late '00s, it was a great browser then. Shame so many browsers are using Chrome/Chromium as a base these days.

@leanne_c Its a shame too, as opera has such a nice interface!

@triac8bit @kiwix Yep I'm an old fashioned FF user too. (although I do use Brave but only to access gmail and gmail only - that way it's contained)

@kiwix One of the problems is to have all your credentials to move around. Chrome is the smallest common denominator, it works on all big platforms. I use Safari on all my Apple devices, and very, very rarely Chrome on the Mac. But Chrome on work laptop (company mandated) as well as on RasPis (or Chromium for that matter). Having to use a THIRD browser which needs ANOTHER password locker is just a pain...

@root42 @kiwix Maybe you’d find great value in adopting a password manager, e.g. #Bitwarden or #KeePassXC.

Also, I don’t have any sources to back up my claim here, but I don’t think that’s a huge factor in Chrome’s market domination at all. I’d bet the majority of internet users just reuse old passwords.

@unperson I use iCloud Keychain mostly, as Safari is my "lead" browser and I let keychain propose random passwords for any account. I manually copy them over to Chrome when I feel the need to log into some site.

@root42 I used iCloud Keychain for a while but the fact that I can only access it on Apple devices became a dealbreaker. So I bit the bullet and manually migrated every record into Bitwarden, which has browser extensions everywhere and has been my rock solid password solution ever since.

@unperson sounds good. Let’s see if I will eventually make the move. Right now the pain is not big enough. :)

@root42 The manual migration was a whole ordeal. I vaguely remember that iCloud Keychain added support for export after my migration, but I just looked it up and apparently it can only be done on a Mac. :blobcatglare:

@didek @kiwix I think password managers are a magnificent idea!

@root42 @kiwix Try Bit Warden as a password manager. Has great browser and Android and iOS integration. Plays nice with Chromium-based browsers and Firefox, Windows, Mac Linux. End to end encrypted, open source, and well trusted.

Far better than being "locked in" to a browser or platform's own password storage approach (which is often less strong).

@wiredfire @kiwix Thanks. I would actually love to see a rigorous analysis of e.g. Apple‘s and Google‘s password managers compared to others. Are there any papers out there?

@root42 @kiwix I'm not aware of papers directly comparing, but passwords stored in Chrome are trivial to crack:

macOS Keychain on severak OS versions can be decrypted, wiht hashed passwords revealed that could be then run through a hash checker like John the Ripper

Bitwarden annually hires a 3rd party to conduct an independent security assessment of their product & makes the findings public. The last report from June 2021:

@wiredfire I just gave the Bitwarden addon a try in Firefox and I must admit it's super easy to use.
I will definitely be using that from now on, rather than storing my passwords in Firefox directly.
Better late than never I suppose 😁

@Player2alpha it's never too late to up your password management game! 😁 Thrilled to hear you're having a good time with it

@root42 Streaming works best for me with Chrome, which is why I stick with it.

@root42 But... browsers are no password managers. 😉

@kiwix Yes, it somewhat is. But the alternatives are folding (Opera is a chrome, edge is a chrome). And Firefox changes its UI every release to annoy as many regular users as possible. Unfortunately there is* no alternative anymore. People rely on a good, fast browser, that just stays working. It isn't helping, that some websites actively discourage the use of or deny Firefox certain aspects, see M$ teams for example.

*the only one screws itself over. Over and over again.

@snaums @kiwix I guess the most browsers rely on the chrome's engine for its extensions. However, there are many alternatives if you consider other aspects (security, privacy, accessibility,...)

@kiwix I still use Opera. Going offline is a challenging vision, but probably the best choice.

@tocomplymeanstolie @kiwix I use Opera > 20 years and still love it, even though I was sad when they switched from presto to webkit/blink as rendering engine.

@fault1er @kiwix I actually don't know the pros and cons off the different rendering engines. 🙂

@tocomplymeanstolie @kiwix

Neither do I in detail. But I felt an intimate connection with Presto 😅
in the end it is probably even good for the unified internet standards that so many browsers use the same engine.

@kiwix who would have guessed that I'd ever be fond of my "browser wars" memories.

@kev @kiwix @selea I wonder. I am using Vivaldi, which is Chromium based. Does that count as Chrome? It shouldn't.

@ruud @kev @kiwix @selea Microsoft Edge is also Chromium, they canned their in-house engine.

@ruud @kev @kiwix @selea It *sort of* does, as the concern is less the brand of the browser and more that Google has a disproportionate control over how all Chromium-based browsers operate.

Brave is probably the one with the most departure from Big G's grip, but it's buggy and unstable which is a real shame.

@wiredfire @kiwix

#Brave is a whole lot more stable than #Firefox (on Mac and Android at least).

@fossil @kiwix I can believe that. Found it pretty hard you use when I was on 'droid. Brave on Windows, however, is just too clunky. Too many random app crashes for me!

@wiredfire @fossil @kiwix I also have a lot of problems with Brave on Android. Not sure if it's purely software or a combination of the hardware I am using + Brave, but it frequently freezes and the only way to unfreeze it is to wait or lock and unlock the device.

@wiredfire @ruud @kev @kiwix @selea I don't find Brave buggy or unstable at all and I use it as my day to day browser.

@blueice @ruud @kev @kiwix @selea I've a suspicion my poor experience might be to do with my use of multiple browser profiles to sandbox different online accounts & uses.

@ruud @kev @kiwix @selea Probably not. Edge is Chromium based and listed separately.

@kiwix It’s also capitalism working exactly as designed.

@aral @kiwix pretty much - OSS isn't well supported in the community from a financial perspective, pretty much intentionally.

Building a browser is artificially expensive, and the user expectations are so high due to investment in chrome that it's a losing battle. Maybe if Mozilla would have made better decisions. You know, just another capitalist company. 🤣 But seriously, how is this Google's fault. Nobody forced Mozilla to take millions from Big Tech, and spend it (almost) entirely nothing related to their browser.

@jordan Let me save you the trouble by blocking you. You’re welcome :)

@kiwix I really dont understand why people went away from Firefox. I use it since the beginning of my online life and it never failed me.

@fdellwing @kiwix It''s the same for me, but the mystery disappears for the most part if you remember that Chrome comes pre-installed on Android devices.

@fdellwing @kiwix at one point I switched away from Firefox due to performance on Chrome being a lot better. At some point Firefox fixed that (i believe the Quantum release in 2017), and I switched back.

@bloodninja @kiwix For me the performance was never so bad, that I had the need to switch. But I also have only around 40 tabs open at all times. And looking at Chrome at that time, it would have eaten another 50-70% more RAM with that number of tabs. So I stayed.

@fdellwing @kiwix Performance, janky track-pad scrolling, quirky UI that changes too often..

I love Mozilla's ethics and ethos, but I keep trying to use Firefox and keep drifting back to something Chromium-based because the experience of browsing the web is just that little bit more smooth.

Also back when Chrome launched Firefox was king, but a sludgy and bloated king. We leap at a fresh, slick, browser & FF have been on the back foot ever since 😥

@wiredfire @kiwix I see:

- Performance is great
- I use M&KB only
- I use no UI, just shortcuts

So, it seems all to be a thing of habit?

@fdellwing @kiwix for a great many users habit will absolutely be a thing, humans are frustratingly resistant to change until something big pushes them (see Birdsite right now 😂).
For me it's less habit as I chop & change and try out browsers regularly. Performance isn't *bad* but Edge on Windows has it beaten (putting aside ethics for a moment).

Mind you, I might well drift back if I can get "fix" Firefox's weird scrolling 🤔

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