Lohan G is a user on mastodon.social. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse. If you don't, you can sign up here.
There is a very positive impact of Mastodon: Since the spread of its instances did the fediverse grow rapidly in diversity of users. Before that it was rather monotonous -- always the same FLOSS marketeers ("advocates") w/ their predictable political and cultural attitudes and opinions. Now we have a diversity that wasn't there when the Fediverse was dominated by GS, Friendica and others.
Lohan G @lohang

@simsa0 made accessible to the masses.

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re: accessible : ... or perhaps: made the fediverse rather interesting for them. Somehow M was able to attract the numbers GS and others never achieved.

@simsa0 Better communication and user friendly/ intuitive design made it possible for non-tech people to understand how things work and get things done easily on Mastodon. In GS there were/are too many hurdles when it comes to understanding even the main functions of the platform. This helped the influx of many users from diverse backgrounds. This is what I meant by accessible. Fediverse is interesting when you got interesting people talking about all sorts of interesting things.

@simsa0 P.S I am not denying the fact that some people (including myself) find tech-related discussions interesting. But there is a whole world beyond that; people who would like to *use* these platforms to discuss interesting things in life.

@lohang @simsa0 GS with Qvitter is just as easy to understand, AND is not as overwhelming. ;) But I see your point. Like I said a few days ago - I am glad mastodon is here, the more choices for the end user, the better.

@stitchxd I am happy that Qvitter is easy to understand. I am happy that Mastodon is easy to understand. I am not blind to deny that Mastodon took it to the widest userbase we have ever had. I am glad that the is expanding. I am not interested in GS vs Mastodon debates. It is pointless. I appreciate Mastodon's contribution in popularizing federated social networks and free microblogging platforms.


@stitchxd @lohang

Quitter even w/ interface Qvitter was never able to retain that many people that came in several waves. Pretty UI can't be the reason. And notice: That people didn't stay was a common experience even prior to all the SJW safe space blocking.

But perhaps all this censorship ("monitoring") was conducive for people to start to run different instances (shitposter, freezepeach) that was the first crack in the uniformity of people, ideologies, and opinionins in the fediverse.

And in that opening MAstodon established itself as a more technically reliable platform than GS w/ all the downtime, brackdowns, etc. (I'm just guessing here.)

So I guess it was a set of lucky coincidences.
@stitchxd Yes - it's good that mastodon came - but it should be absolutely compatible with the federated protocols. And here I see still a lot of work to do. @simsa0 @lohang
@hikerus @simsa0 @lohang agreed, however it is still a young project, being less than a year old.
@stitchxd But protocols in a federated network are essential and should work as first.  @simsa0 @lohang
@hikerus @simsa0 @lohang I agree with that, but this is what it is right?
@lohang @simsa0 No. That would be StatusNet/Laconica. Not Mastodon.

@stitchxd "No. That would be StatusNet/Laconica. Not Mastodon."

Now *that* is the exact frame of mind was able to overcome. You might eat your own dogfood, but if you want others to try it, make it user-friendly, accessible and interesting :-)

cc @simsa0

@lohang @simsa0 Did you read my second comment my friend?

@stitchxd Yes, I did. "it was always accessible to the masses via Laconica/StatusNet." This is the attitude that was able to overcome.

"Sure, it is there, anybody can use it. Come get it"

But you need to be good at communicating things, and also you have to be good at design to take it to the masses. It is a victory.


@lohang @simsa0 Although yes, Mastodon brought more people, it was always accessible to the masses via Laconica/StatusNet.
@stitchxd @simsa0 @lohang Yes, but I think the fediverse became a lot less accessible with the demise of that StatusNet version of identica. The Pump UI was horribly buggy, and its native clients were not much better. What was worse was that Pump became abandonware with nobody interested in fixing bugs (that might not be true now though).

Mastodon was the fediverse renaissance. I've never used Tweetdeck, but apparently lots of people have and so just that UI familiarity factor, together with not too many show-stopping bugs and a random amount of clueless tech journo hype (people apparently pay attention to certain pundits) helped to make the fediverse great again. For a while anyway. But even with the speedy departure of the cool kids and celebs seeking millions of followers the fediverse is still bigger and more diverse now than it was before.
@maiyannah @stitchxd @simsa0 @lohang well I'm not so sure that the technology is neutral argument applies to things like social network systems. It does apply to more basic software, like the sed command.

It's debatable whether a federated structure is more or less amenable to identity politics. I think the centralized systems are more amenable to culture clashes because it's difficult for users to avoid encounters with opposing camps. Federation can allow more instance homophily, but at least users can move to a preferred one.
@maiyannah @stitchxd @simsa0 @lohang I think the centralized systems are more likely to be "winner takes all" type of spaces in which one type of culture might come to dominate (especially if imposed by the proprietor), whereas in federated systems society can be loosely integrated but diverse, without any particular faction "winning".
@maiyannah @bob@//social.freedombone.net @stitchxd @lohang

«whereas in federated systems society can be loosely integrated but diverse, without any particular faction "winning".»

... but w/ all sides losing, as the "blocking", i.e., restriction in federation, creates mutually exclusive sub-fediverses.

Also from your post prior to this:

«Federation can allow more instance homophily, but at least users can move to a preferred one.»

This old-fashioned, outdated view that users reside on a home-instance intead of in-between several makes the ideology of node blocking even more inviting to admins. It's tricky.
@data @maiyannah @stitchxd @simsa0 @lohang the opposing force to that is that as communities become more insular they also become duller so after a while of talking about the same things all the time there's more of an incentive to go and read stuff from other instances.
@maiyannah @data @stitchxd @simsa0 @lohang I expect that those instances which signed up to the extensive blocklist which was doing the rounds will eventually find that too much insularity is self-defeating.
@data @maiyannah @bob@//social.freedombone.net @stitchxd @lohang

Exactly, thank you for this. What is the fulminating against commercial "silos" all good for, when instances-blocking admins recreate them for social reasons?
@pettter @maiyannah @stitchxd @simsa0 @lohang it's a common saying, but often not true. Facebook is not neutral and nor is Twitter. Microsoft Windows is not neutral. They weren't even designed with neutrality in mind. Software often comes with an agenda. Sometimes the agenda is obvious, but oftentimes it's less clear. It's something which Weizenbaum described in Computer Power and Human Reason, but which has become clearer with subsequent generations of technology.

@bob @lohang @simsa0 @stitchxd @pettter @maiyannah

Like all physical manifestations of intellectual constructs, software bears the imprint of its creators. Consider the software police use to assess the risk level of a 911 call and the algorithms it uses to decide how many officers to dispatch.

I bet you can guess what one of the input variables is :)

@jjg @maiyannah @pettter @stitchxd @simsa0 @lohang I've also seen some comparable systems which were conspicuously biased. The values and assumptions of people who make software get baked into it, and some people's values are based upon narrow-minded fears and prejudices.
@bob @maiyannah @stitchxd @jjg @simsa0 @lohang Not to mention (in machine learning) the biases of the underlying data.

@pettter @lohang @simsa0 @stitchxd @bob @maiyannah Honestly that's the penultimate danger, because we're already treating ML as authoritative in some places, and it's not only weak, but only as good as the input (GIGO)

@pettter @lohang @simsa0 @stitchxd @bob @maiyannah

Damn, reading that makes me think the fourth Reich will be robots...

@maiyannah @bob@//social.freedombone.net @stitchxd @lohang

«It's a tool, it makes no value judgements; any such value judgements of the fediverse are one you yourself have imposed.»

Yes, and nuclear weapons make no value judgements either.

That stance is ridiculous. Tech isn't neutral, at least it's designed w/ value expectations in the background; it's better or worse usability is decisive for its quality and its acceptance.
The typical condescending tech / geek reply. You "cultivate" a network from the surrounding there is, and if rotten, malfunctioning software (be it "free" or proipiretary") keeps pushing layperson users away, then you are left w/ the tinker boys & tinker girls. To keep going then os indeed one's own choice, but don't tell me that what results of it is "eactly the network I cultivated". It's what's left over after every other sane non-tech person has left the place. Dealing w/ _that_ only gets me so far. Namely, that there are tinker boy/ tinger girl talk alround, and not much else. And no, one is not "free" to bring up other topics up, as they don't resonate w/ the audience at hand. And I now leave that topic here. Bye.
@maiyannah @stitchxd @simsa0 @lohang well probably the numero uno reason is the network effect. Systems which have more users are more likely to retain them. Without the numbers people will just drift back into the silos. Like a bigger magnet being more powerful than a smaller one. In the fediverse users have more feedom to associate and to choose who they want to associate with, and the freedom from censorship by algorithmic timeline.

Every time someone uses the fediverse more and Twitter or Facebook less then the Silicon Valley types lose a bit of their power and Mark Zuckerberg looks like more of a fool.
@maiyannah @bob@//social.freedombone.net @stitchxd @lohang

That's a bit question begging. I wondered why Mastodon was able to "magnetize" & retain users (if it really does that), but not GS.

«Every time someone uses the fediverse more and Twitter or Facebook less then the Silicon Valley types lose a bit of their power and Mark Zuckerberg looks like more of a fool.»

Perhaps it's just the omnipresence of this ideology in the Fediverse that made it a niche universe, boring to many users.
@maiyannah @bob@//social.freedombone.net

The increase of numbers of dwellers in the fediverse is not important to me, only the increase in the variety of opinions, stances, experiences that comes with it.