So far my favourite thing about emacs is that the “GNU and Freedom” help entry is followed immediately by the all caps notice disclaiming any warranty or responsibility for the software at all.

The “GNU and freedom” link doesn’t work. The disclaimer link sure does though.

I am presently not understanding the commitment to the idea that a ‘meta’ key is something that has existed in the wild since 1980.

The starting screen of emacs offers me a dedicated pair of keystrokes that will permit me to order paper copies of the emacs manual. C-h RET returns “Info file emacs does not exist”.

Again, I am going to try to push through this, but the first impressions I’m getting here is that emacs is abandonware. Tier-1 menus that don’t work. Documentation that’s totally untested, inconsistent and full of dead links and weirdly dated terminology (“visit new file”?) This software has not cared at all about new users’ first impressions in a really, really long time, if ever.

@mhoye I can confirm that after using emacs for a decade I have completely lost all comprehension of how normal people expect programs to work, except for a vague idea that it involves using the mouse for everything and the "view/edit source for this command" feature has been removed

@mhoye if you want an answer for "why do people continue to put up with this shit for so long?" it is 100% because "where else can you find an OS with a view/edit source for this command function that actually works?"

(without going back in time and using smalltalk, I mean)

@technomancy @mhoye my theory for why the tutorial&info documentation is broken is the same as for gnome/kde ui efforts: built by experts for their mental model of a non-expert.

Full-time emacs users don’t need or use the tutorial, and anyone who isn’t one yet but needs one, self-selects out.

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@antifuchs @technomancy that’s not “self-selecting out”, that’s being structurally marginalized.

@technomancy @mhoye or that. At any rate, it’s not observed by the people building the introduction UX.

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