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"The billionaire chief executive of WhatsApp, Jan Koum, is planning to leave the company after clashing with its parent, Facebook, over the popular messaging service’s strategy and Facebook’s attempts to use its personal data and weaken its encryption, according to people familiar with internal discussions."

washingtonpost.com/business/ec

The other WhatsApp founder who already left Facebook, Brian Acton, gave $50 million to start the Signal Foundation with Moxie Marlinspike, and is part of the campaign. Facebook must hate these guys.

techcrunch.com/2018/02/21/sign

@micahflee
I haven't really followed the #deletefacebook campaign.
Was it to some part focused on spreading possible alternatives to #facebook, or mainly picking personal battles against #zuckerberg?

Thought to bring more concurence into a somewhat hegemony market is great, but misses the point/potential if from the critic can't be formed a process that would overcome the adressed issues; that obvious aren't just about zuck, but plattform design/values.

@paulfree14 it isn't really about Zuckerberg. It started with revelations that Cambridge Analytica used FB data from millions of users (who opted into sharing their and their friends' data to some psychology app) to build targeted ad profiles used to elect Trump. And the privacy nightmare of Facebook, and how vulnerable its algorithms are to things like fake news and Russian influence campaigns.

An issue with is it didn't offer alternatives (to be fair, there are none).

@micahflee
I think that was what I ment with 'about zuckerberg'. It's a general problem with plattforms that based their business model on collect, analyse and marketize private data, that is instead being adressed as a specific problem affecting #facebook with the implication of being caused by zuckerbergs internal politics.

That was how the tiny bits I followed the #deletefacebook campaign apeard to me.

@micahflee
About alternatives:
There are, it's just a question what will be defined as a suitable alternative. There won't be any plattform with all my friends, collegues etc. until people start to use it. Someone needs to start.
(I've seen couple of plattforms commin g and going, that kind of everyone in my circle and behond used. from fb they are now dropping away)

plattforms that are from the software aspect great alternatives are:
friendi.ca/
and
project.hubzilla.org/

@micahflee
since #hubzilla and #friendica are part of the fediverse, and even federate with diaspora the userbase isn't to bad.

(yes, can't be compared with the userbase fb has. But if people within ones own circle start to use it, which is often described as one of the main reasons for using fb, it sounds for me like an alternative that can definatly compete with fb.)

@paulfree14 @micahflee I say it's like convincing my drunk friends to move from one bar to another.

The bar they're in has warm beer, rude staff, expensive and no chairs. But their friends are there.

@micahflee Also WhatsApp doesn't get the public recognition they deserve for implementing e2e encryption! I feel like they did it voluntarily, without pressure from their user base.

@micahflee I feel like the public didn't react to the Snowden revelations, but companies did. did e2e encryption, had its clash with the FBI over locked devices. Doesn't even messenger support encrypted chats in the meantime?

@hinterwaeldler @micahflee afaik the signal protocol was rolled into fb messenger but isn't enabled by default.

@fullywoolly @hinterwaeldler yes, it's called Secret Conversations. It only works if both users are using the Messenger mobile app (because FB doesn't hold the keys, it doesn't work in a browser, true with any e2e).

wired.co.uk/article/messenger-

@micahflee why couldn't e2e be implemented in a browser?

signal.org/blog/facebook-messe

Straight from the horse's mouth.

@fullywoolly well, you can if you store the key in Local storage. But it has the hushmail/cryptocat/ProtonMail/lavabit problem.

Since it's a website and not a native app, you basically download the source code each time you load the page. So the server could choose to serve _you_ a backdoor while giving everyone else the secure version of the JavaScript, with no way to detect it.

@micahflee that makes sense. I use protonmail and I don't trust it. If I had anything sensitive, I'd encrypt it locally before putting it in the body of the email. If I had friends that cared enough to use PGP, that is 😕 .

@hinterwaeldler @micahflee I should also mention that Google Allo and Skype have it rolled in. I think the sketchy part is that even if your communication channel is protected, aren't the ends still exposed? Any of those companies could know what is written at the client end if the client is written to share the message or implement a man in the middle attackp. No way to know if the code isn't auditable.

@fullywoolly You're right. And metadata is important too!

But still, I expected nothing from facebook, and I got e2e encryption in WhatsApp. That's fine! 😃

An issue with #DeleteFacebook is it didn't offer alternatives (to be fair, there are none).


If you talk about network effect, ok. If you talk about software, there is diaspora, friendica and hubzilla...
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