cool, my numworks open source pocket calculator arrived!

sorry, clarification: the sources are licensed CC BY-NC-SA, so it’s not libre

@mntmn Wait, not much buttons and a good screen and madelbrot?
Gosh I could love one like this (but I don’t need another calculator).

@mntmn I just looked up this thing, and you can code in python on this thing?! This calc looks neat!

@mntmn This isn't open source. It's licensed CC-NC-ND. Not only can't you sell it, you can't even make modified versions.

@mntmn Well, now it looks like the software is licensed CC-NC-SA instead, so you can make modified versions now. Still not open source, but closer.

@kragen OK so the correct term would be source-available or something?

@kragen thanks for pointing it out, i overlooked that in all enthusiasm

@mntmn yeah, it looks super cool in a lot of ways! and it's definitely a lot more open than a TI-84

that is for sure an odd choice of license for source code. but i'm a bit befuddled as to how cc-by-nc-sa licensed source code wouldn't be considered "open source", or free software. is there some non-obvious to me loophole in the CC or something on account of it not having had been designed for software?

@juliebean @mntmn The noncommercial-use restriction of CC-BY-NC-SA violates point #1 of the Open Source Definition:

@kragen i did not realize the business-y garbage was so baked into ESR's definition of 'open source'. CC-BY-SA-NC does seem to easily satisfy the definition of 'free software' though, so idrgaf. @mntmn

@juliebean @mntmn No, neither the FSF's definition of free software nor the Debian Free Software Guidelines permit noncommercial-use restrictions. The Free Software Definition says, "A free program must be available for commercial use, commercial development, and commercial distribution. Commercial development of free software is no longer unusual; such free commercial software is very important."

The DFSG's point 1 is almost word-for-word identical to the OSD's.

@juliebean @mntmn It turns out that letting people into your free software "community" whose position is "I can sell this program but nobody else is allowed to" — like Numworks — makes it less of a "community" and more of a "customer base". So, perhaps surprisingly, forbidding commercial-use restrictions is critically important to preventing community capture by commercial interests.

@juliebean @mntmn Now, nowadays, the traditional measures to preserve our autonomy are proving to be insufficient — we're facing Google, Fecebutt, Big Data, Amazon, and locked-down bootloaders. So users are losing their freedom *anyway*. I don't have a good solution to that yet.

@mntmn I've been considering getting one just for kicks, but it is not inexpensive. How do you like it?

@descartez so far so good, still need to do some real calculations ;)

@mntmn I've been thinking of the dnd python scripts you could write on it.

@descartez @mntmn I've ordered one and have already written a Shadowrun dice roller for it in anticipation

@mntmn Has anyone implemented a Super Mario clone on it yet?

@mntmn I wonder if you contacted them and discussed their reasoning, could you encourage them to adopt something Libre that meets their needs, like AGPL?

@mntmn oh wow. I've been looking for a decent graphing calculator and this one is 100% nerd compatible and beautiful and not very expensive and open source? Take my money!

@mntmn Oh snap, I didn't even know that was a thing, and it looks heckin awesome. For a reasonable price too! I'm sold.

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