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Pat David @patdavid

A new 2.9.8 release of @GIMP is now available (windows and macOS builds to follow)!

gimp.org/news/2017/12/12/gimp-

Have a look at some of the great new features (on-canvas gradient editing, clip warning, wayland support, paste in place, and more)!

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@patdavid @GIMP I really wish we had Flatpaks for all the tools, including the development versions.

It's a bit ironic that it's much easier to install a lot of the FOSS graohics tools and the dev versions of all on Windows and macOS than it is on Linux. 😐

Hopefully that will change soon.

(I wonder if we should start a thread on the forum about it and ask people to help out?)

@garrett @GIMP Jehan was _literally_ just talking about the best way to push development flatpack versions (as opposed to stable builds)

@GIMP @patdavid graphics tools (on my phone and it auto-corrected it to not-a-real-word for who-knows-why reasons 😏)

@garrett @patdavid @GIMP I hear that Flathub only allows stable versions to be hosted, so that might take a while

@garrett @patdavid @GIMP
I don't think flatpak is a solution, there are major issues with that approach and I recommend checking two things to get better idea:
Talk at GUADEC by openSUSE chairman Richard Brown youtube.com/watch?v=SPr--u4n8X

And this blog post about importance of distribution maintainers:
kmkeen.com/maintainers-matter

@gutigen @patdavid @GIMP

1. What is a solution if not Flatpaks?

2. You are aware that since then Richard has been working on Kubic, which is an openSUSE implementation of the same idea that powers Fedora Atomic (versioned base OS), with Flatpaks on top for apps, right?

@garrett @patdavid @GIMP
Actually we talked about it with Richard at Linux Gaming Discord (link in my status) about it after his adventure with Kubic desktop, he still has some major issues with flatpaks, I'm sure he would love to address them if you'd contact him ;)

@gutigen @patdavid @GIMP Ah; assumed it was the GUADEC talk. Sorry. Thanks for the correction. I'll add it to my to-watch list.

@gutigen @patdavid @GIMP BTW, I was at that talk and spoke with Richard shortly after.

He did bring up some good points, which have been addressed, and others of his points weren't exactly valid.

@gutigen @patdavid @GIMP Meanwhile, can you please point me to instructions for easily installing the following (at least as easy as it is on Win & Mac) on Linux:

- Darktable with support for my cameras's raw files (currently only available in source)
- unstable Gimp, as it supports high bit depth, etc.
- Rapid Downloader Pro
- HDRMerge

You can't, because they don't exist. So I have to try compile things from source. Flatpak would solve it.

@GIMP @patdavid @gutigen I've used computers since I was a kid, Linux for more than 2 decades, am a software developer, have worked at Linux companies for nearly 2 decades — and still have problems compiling & updating some of these from source.

Fragmented distros with random DEBs & RPMs (if you're lucky) haven't solved the problems of app distribution. They're also not able to be sandboxed or installed & ran as a user.

This is why we need Flatpak.

@gutigen @patdavid @GIMP To be clear: I'm saying that it can be tough sometimes even for those of us with experience to compile everything from source. It definitely is time consuming too.

What about the majority of people who don't know the first thing about software development? What can they do?

By only releasing tarballs alongside EXEs & DMGs, you're saying to easily run open source software, they should switch to a proprietary operating system!

@garrett @patdavid @GIMP
Btw - solution is more maintainers working on distros packaging and better tools for them, which also has a lot of other benefits mentioned in blog post I linked earlier.

@gutigen @patdavid @GIMP That's the solution that's been in play for 3 decades. It isn't working (for everything) and doesn't scale (for the distros, developers, etc.).

@garrett @patdavid @GIMP
I trust maintainers more than developers to make sure all security patches and other measures are applied, not to mention compability issues that are not always solved by flatpak (often not from my experience so far).

I think it's important to differentiate between distributions, some might need flatpak cause they have bad packaging toolchain and not enough contributors (and incentives for them), others don't.

@garrett @GIMP @patdavid @gutigen why do you compare Flatpak with old/‘weak’ package managers. What about Guix/Nix?

I can install Nix on Debian/Arch/AndSoOn and install Darktable/Gimp/AndSoOn with it.

Why I ‘need Flatpak’ in this case?

@kmicu @gutigen @patdavid @GIMP @garrett

I now for sure that Darktable is in

As for Gimp, you could add a guix.scm file to its repository so you could easily build it on OR on any foreign distro with installed as a package

You could run

guix environment -f path/to/guix.scm

and you'd be in a shell prompt with ALL the Gimp deps available, you could develop Gimp in there

@garrett @GIMP @patdavid
Darktable and Rapid are in official openSUSE repositories, HDRMerge is not but there is OBS package. Maybe you should start using good distros :P

@patdavid @GIMP I haven't been paying attention for a while, so forgive my ignorance, but I wanted to ask: is there a plan in place for consolidating UI? The proliferation of all sorts of plugins (like the excellent G'MIC) with their own UI universes inside GIMP really doesn't help with discovery of various features… Well, I think you guys know about it much better than me :-)

@isagalaev @GIMP There have been some UI changes, but they're mostly minor.

One of the problems with being extremely extensible is possibly having inconsistent UI's across more advanced plugins, like G'MIC.

Part of the problem is that G'MIC is already a pretty full-featured framework for image processing in itself, and usually has different UI requirements than base GIMP might...

@patdavid @GIMP yes, it's probably impossible to solve completely, but it is a kind of problem where small improvements make sense. Like, having UI guidelines ("let's have all blur filters in Filters/Blur", "all preview controls should be of this size and have these buttons attached to them") and encourage authors of prominent plugins to either follow them or provide an API so The Community would write UI for them.

@isagalaev @GIMP Technically this is somewhat possible now for script-fu and plugin authors - they can decide where their contributions show up on the menus.

The problems start when there's a non-trivial plugin (again, G'MIC comes to mind). Normally scripts will inherit windowing and controls from GTK and look native to GIMP.

It doesn't help that G'MIC is QT based these days, either. :)

@isagalaev @GIMP That being said, UI help is always welcome and any reasonable requests or suggestions will be listened to (and if we had enough manpower and long-term contributors possibly implemented). :D

@patdavid @GIMP sure :-) But as any programmer I already have about gazillion side projects I want to do "when there's time". So no promises from me on this front!

@isagalaev @GIMP @patdavid it's something i'd love to work on in the future

@patdavid @GIMP I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.