@popey yes but stop compare Win and Linux, this are different OSs and teach them how to use this properly.

P.S. stop using Ubuntu as server OS!

Nothing's better than the installation of a good ol' Gentoo server :awesome:
@kubikpixel
@popey

@GezSaved you don't have a life and have time, why not. Regular a Debian is absolutely OK and you use Ansible to deploy and manage the stack, you have time and a life.
@popey

@popey those are fairly good reasons for avoiding ElementaryOS. Its been well known for a while its hardly a functional distro.

@boilingsteam @popey ...I guess if what you consider "functional" is whatever copies Windows's behavior the most, then sure?

@tromino @popey not just that. Relying on flatpak to install everything is a very poor choice.

@tromino @popey and lets stop pretending all distros are equal under the sun. Some distros make good choices, some not so much. Just like everything that is run by people or groups of people, you know?

@boilingsteam @popey of course, I just don't think elementary OS specifically is a bad choice

@boilingsteam @popey I like the decision to use a sandboxed package format tbh, and it's not like there's a lack of software to install with flatpaks :blobcatderpy:

@hj @boilingsteam @popey I don't think there's much for it to change tbh

it's mainly the apps that need to be updated to support Flatpak's features, which a lot of apps haven't done yet (but I still think it's the right direction to go in the long term)

@hj @boilingsteam @popey I'm talking about features like portals which allow you to do things like opening files and recording the screen from a sandboxed environment

@hj @boilingsteam @popey that's kind of a niche use case tho, and those apps can still do those things if they don't mind not having a big "secure" badge on their store page

but I think most apps that can should eventually switch over to using portals

@tromino @popey flatpak is not a sandbox. At least far from being as secure as you think it is.

@boilingsteam @popey that depends on the app and its permissions, tools like GNOME Software will usually mark an app as secure if it doesn't require having things like raw access to the filesystem or X11 protocols

@paperdigits @tromino @popey you already have maintainers for all packages in your system. Running things as flatpak means you lose tracking of all vulnerabilities in every flatpak package... Flatpak is fine as an exception in your system, using it to install everything goes against the way distros are built.

@boilingsteam @paperdigits @tromino I think you're misguided if you really believe what you just typed. Don't think for a minute that all packages have active maintainers in repositories for all distros. They don't, even for the most popular, active distros.

@popey @paperdigits @tromino Let's take the example of Debian, it has more than 25k packages and there's the orphaned packages here: debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned it's a fraction of the total number of packages. You can also see that obsolete go and python module constitute a large bunch of it.

@boilingsteam @tromino @popey this "as an exception" argument makes no sense, as when you install a single app, you generally get the runtimes as well. And you don't loose track of vulnerabilities, you can track them if you like. The flatpak manifest is declarative, so you know exactly what versions of libraries you're running.

@popey I remember getting red hat disks from my local library when I was 10 or 11 and accidentally deleting my new windows xp install off my computer.

Sometimes the best lessons are the painful ones.

@popey I use a distribution with the Linux kernel.
I must use the correct Linux πŸ˜πŸ˜ŽπŸ˜‰

@popey
I've been recommending Raspbian PC (Raspberry Pi Desktop for PC and Mac to give it its full title) to beginners because it's lightweight, more like Windows in most ways and easy to use (easier than Windows these days and certainly more user-friendly than stock Debian/Ubuntu), however I know I should find a more open project to recommend; I just can't find one as good!

@popey what is surprising to me are the strong opinions like "people shouldn't do X" or "stop doing y". Isn't the beauty of the Linux/FOSS projects that they don't lock people in and we can still do all the things that need doing no matter the desktop or server distro?

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