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I wonder if someone has study "fossilisation" in the FOSS world, there is a bunch a of key important tech that have very badly evolved and no one want to touch them anymore and those are often super critical and require a shitload of knowledge to learn correctly (and that totally sucks).

The ones I can think about (but I'm sure there more):
* mails (oh_god.jpg)
* mailing list
* gpg
* openssl

(I'm also tempted to say "anything related to netadmin" but that would be trolling 😋)

Raphaël Bastide @raphaelbastide

@bram Question is: what is the border between «fossilisation» and «no reason to change that». I am thinking about core and powerful tools such as the terminal, git (not so old), IRC…

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@raphaelbastide right now I would answer: when tech become so disastrously complicated to administrates/uses while they are deeply needed and that blocks people.

That matches for all the one I've listed for me.

@bram @raphaelbastide For "administrate", I don't see anything really "simple" theses days. Everything la more and more complex.

@Camille @raphaelbastide that really depends on what you focus you put on and on which scale you look at.

If you look at "a single server for one person/organisation" some stuff have actually become simplier with apache > nginx > nginx or even LE.

If you tolerate docker deployment of some stuff has also become way easier. Same if you tolerate systemd.

On the other hand emails is not moving at all in that direction, quite the contrary...

@raphaelbastide @Camille and I'm talking "sysadmin by hand" because you now have a lot of tools that simplify a lot of things like: YunoHost, cloudron, sandstorm, puffin, libre.sh (and all the other ones I've forgot)

@bram @raphaelbastide

I think nginx is a good example : it's easy for simple thing, like serving files or reverse-proxying some stuff. But more and more webapps needs complex server stacks for working, so the simplicity doesn't exists for a lot of things.

Then comes Docker. It hides complexity, not reduce it.
I've a ton of stuff where I pray it'll not crash, because if it does, I'll unable to repair it, not knowing the stack behind.

@raphaelbastide @bram

For mail, new tools more easy to configure are developped these days (OpenSMTPD for example). But there are no real world "simple stacks" for mail, like "simple file serving" in HTTP.

I'm not sure administrate a mail server is more complex than running most of modern web apps. But complexity of stack isn't hide by modern packaging tools.