Any thoughts on the Green New Deal? Where do you guys see that going the future?
@socalledunitedstates We can always hope! I'll definitely be incorporating some key aspects into my area's local demands.
@raven0144 remind me to reply to this later im on a break and can't give a full response rn :b
Hey, I'd love to hear your take whenever you get a chance.
@raven0144 it's got some good, but limited ideas based on Keynesian economics that did help us out of the great depression, however it still relies on global capitalism (thus exploitation of the global south) which is a characteristic of social democracy, which will good for members of the nation, is not good for those from others. And even if these ideas are good and popular, what reason would the rich and powerful have to allow the passage of such legislation?
@raven0144 and ultimately it doesn't even attempt to make a fairer economy, just one that puts a bandaid on the bullet wound that the working class has been trying to heal for generations (all of this is from an anti-imperialist Marxist perspective so take it with that in mind)
@raven0144 tl;dr it's an attempt at revitalize Keynesian economics thought when neoliberalism is the natural progression of capitalism and will likely not lose its grip anytime soon. We need an active effort to democratize our economic sector to make any of this possible
(also we need to shut down climate change causing energy and labor practices ASAP and the new green deal seems to be too incremental for the health of our planet)
I can definitely see where you're coming from when it comes to exploitation of the global south and I agree that the ultimate result will be capitalistic in nature. We have to remember though, we're talking about congressional politics which in itself are super limited. We are never going to legislate our way to liberation. This new deal works within the system of oppressors, so it will never be enough to lift oppression, but like you said, it is a bandaid on a bullet wound
But I am certainly glad for the bandaid when throughout history electoral politics has either ignored or mostly made our wounds worse. I do think it's an attempt to make a fairer economy. There's a lot in there that tries to nationalize and democratize important parts of society. (Not that I agree with all of it, but it definitely seems like an attempt). We should continue direct action and shutting down bad practices of course, that is honestly way more important than anything
that could ever come through congress though. While doing this, I also believe it is important to embrace a diversity of tactics because legislation like this, while it will never pass will make climate change more of a topic of discussion and urgency in the mainstream, especially when coupled with leftist action and analysis being more prominent, radicalizing and pushing people to take action of their own.
@raven0144 oh yeah. At this point voting and supporting progressive dems is the least important part of political activities. Direct political agitation and economic militancy (along the lines of the BPP's free breakfast for children program and free clinics) is especially important. Mass movements are so important, which is why I want to join a local party. I was part of Socialist Alternative but it fell apart because national did some stuff that was uh,,,,, bad
@raven0144 so I'm looking at socialist and communist parties in my area rn, there aren't many because I'm in the heart of the rust belt in a city that isn't politically active at all. Also I do agree with your point on bringing attention to the climate, though it seems the public is mostly there already it's the legislature that needs to feel pressure
That sucks about lack of groups. Idk if you want my advice but here goes: I found many lefties on my college campus. The DSA is pretty active in a lot of places. I know on the national level their politics aren't what you're looking for, but the people I've met through there locally are actually very radical (pretty much all revolutionary communists) Also I think @socalledunitedstates has offered their skills in finding leftist groups anywhere.
@raven0144 @socalledunitedstates yeah I've considered organizing with DSA on local issues, also been looking at party for socialism and liberation. Hell, id love to organize with some anarchist comrades cause you guys are super good at causing direct change c: I think dsa and psl both have local chapters near me? Dunno if they're still active though I'll have to look into it
@raven0144 dang you're right that does make sense ill have to check to see if they're around more closely c:
@DeerlyYours I'd look in the more urban/populated downtown areas, and ask the homeless people, they'll probably know of it or a group like it. My city has what's called a Really Free Market where FNB and a couple other small vendors show up, so that's where I found them after my online attempts at contact didn't work.
@raven0144 dang I've read about those markets they're cool
@raven0144 also ty for all the info
no problem! Good luck finding people
Absolutely. Nothing beats good ol' direct action. BPP is my inspiration for politics and organizing. I wish leftists talked about them more regularly.
@raven0144 BPP is my main inspiration too. It was the most revolutionary party applied to the U.S. condition in recent history, even though flawed and full of internal misogyny and homophobia, still held mostly solid views and praxis. Not many countries have historical activities to learn from in their particular context c: We need to change a bit given the decade difference, but still!
@raven0144 also I think the green new deal would be better with a back burner idea of "we are pushing for this to show you that capital will not give us what we need and a new system is needed"
Yeah, I think it could be very radicalizing when a huge majority of the people get behind the new deal and then it doesn't pass, they'll realize the system does not work for them, and only serves the interest of the oppressive class. In that sense, the GND could be fantastic to show people another way out
@raven0144 sorry for spamming you :b
no you're good :D This is good conversation
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