So... Thunderbird would like to support Activity Pub.

Anyone in the Fediverse wanna work on that?

@ryanleesipes Huh

In what way? As a client? Not many servers implement the client-to-server protocol, most ActivityPub use is server-to-server.

@Gargron @ryanleesipes maybe it's time to change that. It can be used only so much as an excuse.

@Gargron as a client, yes. We used to support posting to and reading Twitter. But Twitter broke our integration.

I think it'd be interesting for a number of reasons. But, we could at least provide the same experience we did for Twitter to Activity Pub users.

@selea sure. We used to have support for writing Twitter posts and scrolling through your feed. But Twitter broke our API access.

We could swap that out for Activity Pub and folks could at least post and scroll from within Thunderbird.

@ryanleesipes @selea in one regard Eugen is right, the C2S part of ActivityPub is underspec'd so it would require a little bit of investigative work about a clean way to do it. I'm currently working on a document that tries to formalize some aspects of it, but it's not ready yet.

@mariusor the only thing that helps an underspecced standard come into its own is practical exploration. Much lime what happened with AP S2S and Mastodon.

@ryanleesipes @selea


Yes. I am working on it. Formalizing the results into a FEP, but coding is more fun than writing docs.

@ryanleesipes @selea

@ryanleesipes I have reservations about this. I think that Thunderbird should concentrate on being the best email program possible. I don't know how Activitypub fits into that.

@murph I understand your concern. We already support a number of chat protocols, RSS, Calendaring and Contacts.

We used to support Twitter (as a client) - so a lot of the work is already there for experience. We'd just be using Activity Pub as the backend instead of Twitter.


> We already support a number of chat protocols, RSS, Calendaring and Contacts.

All of them badly.

Thankfully almost nobody knows about those misfeatures as #Thunderbird is associated almost exclusively with #email.

Boring is good. Stick to what works.


@ryanleesipes Thunderbird already freezes at random with no debugability (eg: Is it Gmail IMAP, Protonmail or another IMAP account misbehaving?).

Investing in ActivityPub is the forward thinking move, but there are core issues to resolve in Thunderbird first.

@bikecurious we already had a Twitter experience that allowed users to post and scroll their feed. That broke when Twitter changed their API. We'd like to bring it back with Activity Pub.

I asked if anyone here wanted to work on it so we don't spend any resources on it. It's a nice to have, but not a necessity.

@ryanleesipes they probably want to support activitypub c2s, which no server really supports


why ? too much money ?

please, use this money to improve:
- search feature
- calendar
- backup/restore tool
- refactor the code or move parts in Rust.

Activity Pub is the last feature I would think of for a MUA. :)

BTW, I love Thunderbird, see my comment of 11 March 2021 (can only be sincere :))

So, I am not a troll.

@hicks hey. I'm asking for a volunteer to come help implement the AP support. No plans to drop money on it.

All of the features you outlined are getting paid time dedicated to them.

With all due respect @ryanleesipes: you do not understand.

This is not just a “nice to have”. It is a #dissatisfier or “reverse” quality in the #Kano model: it will piss people off at varying degrees while pleasing none.

If you were looking at destroying whatever little goodwill the #Thunderbird brand has left, that is exactly the sort of thing you would do.

I find this sort of conversation very concerning already. But on the plus side, at least you had the wits to ask for input 👍


@ryanleesipes @hicks

> All of the features you outlined are getting paid time dedicated to them.

Since you do #bizdev, here's an idea:

Be *way* more transparent with how money is being spent, as in an exact breakdown of how much is allotted to/spent on what features, etc.

That way, I for one would be much more inclined to consider paying under a voluntary subscription model.

Subscribers would not get any extra features but could participate in an advisory vote on how to allocate the budget

@ryanleesipes As user it would be cool to have even thoug I am not a huge supporter of activityPub...


> #Thunderbird would like to support Activity Pub

Why? To let it rot like the #XMPP support?

Thunderbird is not exactly the best staffed of projects so why would it need to spread its forces even thinner for?

@0 @ryanleesipes

Someone working on Thunderbird is looking for an excuse to working on something new and sexier.


The problem is that half-cooked, never quite finished, eventually unmaintained features have the opposite effect of what's presumably intended: they make #Thunderbird *less* appealing with a net negative impact on the brand.

If I may suggest something useful to work on: non-break spaces. TB idiotically replaces those with normal spaces making it almost useless to write proper #Czech or #French with.


@0 @jcbrand @ryanleesipes

XMPP support #Thunderbird is disgusting. It has no encryption, no file transfer. I don't even want to talk about video calls.


This is what I meant by damaging the brand:

> XMPP support #Thunderbird  is disgusting.

You're just asking for a volunteer to damage it for free.

@jcbrand @ryanleesipes

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