@jerry @Aaron@boringpeople.org what we really need is a way to securely send e-mail.

People will continue to send e-mail. There is no way this goes away antime soon. People will send sensitive stuff via e-mail.

We can spend time discussing just how exactly people should not use e-mail, or we can build a system that works.

I like the ideas behind PEP and AutoCrypt. I'd like to see them implemented in more clients.

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@jerry @Aaron@boringpeople.org I mean, *clearly* neither the approach of "don't use e-mail for sensitive stuff", nor the current implementations of PGP/GPG for e-mail work well enough.

@rysiek @Aaron I’m all for something that works and is usable. I can’t help but think that we need to take a step back and put some focus on designing the successor to smtp mail, rather than continuing to try to keep adding parts to Frankenstein.

@rysiek @Aaron otherwise, we keep having these issues and the nihilists say “see, it wasn’t made for that use case!”
And the optimists say “it just needs a bit more duct tape on the top and it’s good to go again! Stop being so negative”

@alcinnz @jerry @Aaron@boringpeople.org Interesting. Will check it out. Thanks.

@rysiek @Aaron also, you’re completely right: there is a need to send sensitive stuff in email, and people will continue to do so. I have no misconceptions about that.

@jerry @Aaron @rysiek People have sent sensitive stuff in the mail for ages. The security problems with that - especially between nation states and individuals - have mostly been mitigated by legal frameworks (privacy of correspondence), and not with technology. In that regard, the mindset of the Declaration of the Independence of the Cyberspace has probably been quite harmful - solving similar problems using tech turns out way more expensive.

@galaxis @jerry @Aaron@boringpeople.org been doing privacy activism in an EU country for about a decade and I can tell you one thing: the fact that breaking certain encryption is impossible makes it helluva lot easier to argue in defense of legal protections of privacy of correspondence.

Plus, legal protections in places like Belarus are not a thing.

We need both. Legal and tech.

@rysiek @jerry @Aaron@boringpeople.org We already have end to end encryption for e-mail.

Security is as good as the weakest link though.

The Internet has turned the world into a global village. You can’t keep a secret in a village.

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