@dashie

FLOSS community:
> hey let's put all our eggs in this one GitHub basket
> what could possibly go wrong
> GitHub is so convenient

Microsoft:

@rysiek @dashie haha so true. I wrote an article about The Github threat https://carlchenet.com/the-github-threat/

@rysiek @dashie Well, we also seem to be putting several eggs in the GitLab basket, and larger projects host their own GitLab instance.

@rysiek @dashie When it comes to git hosting, every developer still has a full copy of the history. There's minimal risk of lock-in.

Bug trackers are another story... do GitHub and GitLab let you export all bugs with comments?

@codewiz @dashie There is some talk about federated issues on Gitlab: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/44486

GitHub on the other hand clearly focuses in locking you in. If not with git history, then with issues, pull requests, wikis, and all the rest.

@codewiz @rysiek @dashie
yes, github lets you export issues and comments. they can be easily accessed via an HTTP API exporting JSON, that should be reasonably easy to convert/import to other systems

@codewiz @rysiek @dashie
I think the biggest issue with migrating away from gitrhub will be that many projects' official homepage is bla.github.io or github.org/bla/blub - having an official homepage with a domain you control would help and is totally possible while still using github (incl. gh pages)

@codewiz @dashie hosting their own instance is not vulnerable to corporate takeover of the code hosting platform and sudden changes of policies.

It is not vulnerable to outright censorship: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/12/14/1618239/github-takes-down-satirical-c-plus-equality-language

We may discuss whether the project taken down was "valuable" or not, but the point stands -- GitHub should not have such a power. GitLab does not, for the self-hosted instances.

@codewiz @dashie comparing a solution you can self-host with a fully centralized solution is, I feel, disingenuous.

Of course we should have *more* implementations (and we do, actually), but these are problems on two different levels.

I'd like to see federated issues/pull requests between git-hosting instances thouhg.

@rysiek @dashie However, I feel that the git hosting part of GitLab is secondary to the social aspects.

Even if you could self-host Facebook, you'd still want to be on the instance where all your friends are.

I feel that GitLab self-hosting makes sense only for very large projects like GNOME and Freedesktop, and even those incur a small loss of visibility for not being on the larger GitLab instance.

@rysiek @dashie What Mastodon gets right is that you can interact with anyone in the fediverse regardless of which instance they picked.

Would be cool if GitLab allowed sending pull requests across instances, following remote projects, and so on.

@codewiz
@rysiek @dashie
You can track that work here: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/4013

@codewiz @dashie that is true. That's why I'd love to see federated issues and all of that.

@rysiek @codewiz @dashie I wrote up https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/4517 some time ago. I think it's viable, and quite possibly fun to do.

@lupine @rysiek @dashie Awesome proposal, and it seems feasible too!

Some time ago, an old friend of mine implemented a more radical approach to distributed git hosting: https://blog.printf.net/articles/2015/05/29/announcing-gittorrent-a-decentralized-github/

I'm not saying we should do it this way, but I love how he combined three existing technologies to produce fully-distributed version control.

@codewiz @lupine @dashie I am aware of GitTorrent and I do think this is where we should be going, long-term. However, I was under the impression it's not actively developed/supported anymore?

I'd love to learn otherwise!

@rysiek @lupine @dashie It works, but it was always intended as a proof of concept, I guess?

The hard problem, IMHO, is re-creating the full GitLab experience on top of all this. Designing a nice workflow was already very hard without throwing torrents and blockchains in the mix.

@codewiz @lupine @dashie nobody said it's going to be easy

@codewiz
@dashie @lupine @rysiek
Anytime I see people thinking of building a thing in Torrents I immediately feel compelled to recommend ipfs instead. It's basically the new Bittorrent, developing into something much more dynamic and wholesome than Bittorrent.

@cathal @rysiek @dashie @codewiz I'm pretty skeptical about both ipfs and bittorrent for this kind of thing. Medium-term, enhancements to/replacement of git with something fossil-like would be awesome. Git notes for MR comments is one example (not implemented so far)

@codewiz @rysiek @lupine @dashie this definitely does not have all features discussed, but if you haven't already have a look at gitbucket https://github.com/gitbucket/gitbucket . it's extremely easy to set up and use, and has many of github's features (so much so that github threatened them to change their ui). there's a plugin system that might be a viable way to introduce federation...

@walruslifestyle @rysiek @lupine @dashie If it's really so mature, then why is it hosted on GitHub?

@codewiz @walruslifestyle @rysiek @dashie writing code and running hosts are very different jobs :-p. Or they were before devops anyway. Gogs/gitea are also awesome - much faster to get up and running, lighter system requirements

@lupine @walruslifestyle @rysiek @dashie Gittorrent's design addresses the serving problem by piggybacking onto Bitcoin for naming and leveraging Bittorrent as a secure CDN.

Just saying... I don't really believe that Gittorrent would make a good alternative for GitHub because git hosting is just one piece of collaborative software development.

Perhaps our best chance is adding some federated features for GitLab. Especially while there seems to be enthusiastic support from core developers.

@codewiz @rysiek @lupine @dashie visibility, I assume. I've used gitbucket for five years or so for my own projects and have been happy with it, but nobody knows where they are

@rysiek
@codewiz @lupine @dashie

Git over SSB is another thing that exists. Haven't really experienced it firsthand.

https://git.scuttlebot.io/%25n92DiQh7ietE%2BR%2BX%2FI403LQoyf2DtR3WQfCkDKlheQU%3D.sha256

@gcupc

I only cloned stuff using it and tried the web interface. Dunno if and how they solved the actual workflow and protecting master yet? But either way it feels radical to use, probably
more so than it actually is.

@rysiek @codewiz @lupine @dashie

@rysiek @codewiz @dashie IMO for short-term solutions it'd be cool to evaluate which of the following can be implemented on top of git or APub:
- issues
- wikis
- comments/reviews
- any other important feature of github I missed?

@rysiek @codewiz @dashie
IMO wikis could easily be either a separate branch or a subdir in the git repo, only needs a CI to render it.
(btw. CI doesn't need federation at all)

issues... I have a feeling the solution will become apparent once we have figured out how to do comments/reviews.

@rysiek @codewiz @dashie

So, comments. On file lines, on diff lines, or on pull requests.
How do we implement them?
And is a pull request basically sending "hey can you pull ac7f... from git.example.com/..." over your favourite communication method, or do we need something more formal?

@Wolf480pl @rysiek @dashie Something like that, in a machine-readable form.

Do we need to worry about security? My guess is no: if email is secure enough for Linux kernel development, ActivityPub messages will also do.

And then again, git also has PGP signatures.

@rysiek @dashie

Free Software Needs Free Tools
https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
June 4, 2010

Mako was correct. "I told ya so!"

@niconiconi @dashie yeah, I also did some talks about it several years ago.

Many of us saw it coming.