I am very tempted to switch my personal server from systemd to any other init. Question is, can docker be used without systemd?.. :thounking:

· · Web · 6 · 0 · 4

Devuan seems to work well enough for me to consider just migrating my Debian stretch server to Devuan ASCII: devuan.org/os/documentation/de

Looks pretty duable, and since I already installed sysvinit-core, I'm kind of halfway there.

But perhaps I should not start it at 4AM. :blobnom:

Aaand the server is dead. :D

Time to dive into the rescue system and see what went down.

Downgraded back to Debian stretch, with some funky commandline-fu giving me the list of packages to downgrade/reinstall:
dpkg -l | grep devuan | awk '{ print $2 }' | xargs apt-cache policy | egrep '(^[a-z]| 500$)' | tr -d '\n' | sed -r -e 's/: /=/g' -r -e 's/ 500/ /g'

I guess Devuan and my private server don't mix, at least as an upgrade/migration. Will stick to systemd-less Debian for the time being.

But moving my VMs to . Way easier to debug if something goes wrong.

So this worked: rabexc.org/posts/p9-setup-in-l

Exciting. Now I can start setting up the services in the VMs, etc.

Spent the last 2.5h setting up and testing single packet authorization with fwknop, using GPG keys. Pretty neat:

Pitfalls:remember that the GPG keys cannot be longer than RSA 2048bit, otherwise encrypted data won't fit into a single packet.

So now I can SSH into my server either after GPG-based SPA, or through Wireguard. All other traffic is dropped.

Another ToDo off my list.

@rysiek According to paddy-hack.gitlab.io/posts/san, Docker CE Debian packages provided by the Docker people did work on Devuan, as of last year.
No idea how the situation is today, but seeing as even Wheezy is still a supported platform, there should not be any heavy dependency on systemd yet.

@animeirl because systemd is something I am happy to go out of my way to avoid.

@animeirl scroll through my timeline from last week and enjoy all the toots that talk about systemd. They should offer ample explanation. :)

@rysiek well, suit yourself. If I never have to touch sysvinit ever again that'll still be too much as far as I'm concerned

@rysiek sweeet. I'd be really curious to hear about your long term experience. from the reading i did, i think devuan wilk be good tho

but yea, make it a relaxing and enjoyable process, maybe with a backup plan or smthn, just incase

get you some good rest
@rysiek I think @maiyannah mentioned a while back that it's easy to replace systemd within Debian.

@bob @maiyannah it is a question of `apt-get install sysvinit-core`, yes.

However, 1. it still leaves some systemd-related services running; 2. because of what I consider a bug in packaging of `libvirt-daemon-system`, you cannot have a Debian stretch system with libvirtd set up as a system service and *not* have systemd installed (if not running).

Also, I want to play with Devuan and my personal server seems like a perfect fit. :)

@taziden with a bit more testing I might roll it out in production.

I love the idea of having pretty exact control (based on GPG keys) of who even gets access to an open port.

@rysiek But why? After a couple of months we'll have systememacs and you'll feel sorry for switching off.

@rysiek Well if you go for FreeBSD you get a systemd-free system and jails. :P

@rysiek In automating things in a way that doesn't involve having some daemon regularly kill and restart services? :P

Seriously, sometimes It feels like today's "production grade" software is more akin to what I understand as proof of concept. :F

@dragnucs not really, but thanks for pointing it out.

I need to start playing with other container management tools like podman, rkt, and with bigger fish like kubernetes and rancher. But no time for that right now.

@rysiek Podman is meant as a drop-in replacement for Docker not needing any daemon. So certainly, it does not need systemd. However, I do not know if it can work with Docker-compose.

@moritzheiber @rysiek @dragnucs It's nice to see more tools built for unprivileged and daemonless use!

Haven't really considered that ever docker build requires dockerd and docker privileges, but of course. This is great not the least for CI use.
@rysiek Ah systemd.

Start a service: system SERVICE start

But, if I wanna look at logs i don't use "system", I use...

systemctl status SERVICE (with service at the end, not the middle)


journalctl -xe (and look for it)

Instead of being able to look at a log in /var/log

systemd drives me nuts too.
Sign in to participate in the conversation

Server run by the main developers of the project 🐘 It is not focused on any particular niche interest - everyone is welcome as long as you follow our code of conduct!