If anyone knows and is looking for a project to help out with, Go-based protocol implementation library and a native Signal client using it are in dire need of love:

Yes, I also prefer truly decentralized protocols, but Signal is where it's at currently with a lot of people, and it's way better than other popular options... So, we need independent clients.

@rysiek I was half sure they closed down for alternative clients too when they stopped federation. Didn't they block a fork that expunged the Google Play Service dependencies from the standard android client?

@pettter well they insist that unofficial clients do not use the word "Signal" in the name. Other than that, Whisperfish seems to work fine (modulo bugs and missing functionality) so far.

@pettter @rysiek I'm using the java-based CLI client and haven't had problems...

@strypey yeah, I am more interested in Briar (time to go full p2p decentralized).

I need Signal for work. It took 3 years to move 200+ journalists to Signal, I don't have 3 more years to now move them to Wire, unless Signal really fscks up big time.

@strypey ah no, didn't know about Jami. Thanks! Will check it out.


> that's no reason to encourage people to do unpaid work for them.

Moxie fights the idea of independent clients, so this is far from working *for them*. In fact, it seems to be the opposite.

> Why support Sailfish?

Because it's the only usable mobile OS that is so open and comes with actual support.

> Did you read OP of the first link I posted?

Yes, and I agree with most of it. But I need to communicate with people where my choices are Signal or Viber/Telegram/Whatsapp.

@strypey oh, and I love that this privacytoolsIO thing is hosted on GitHub.

We all make compromises.

@ilpianista @BurungHantu @strypey I know, I just could not stop myself from tooting (pun totally intended!) my own horn.

@rysiek I agree with @strypey here. I was on the #SailfishOS boat, I even built 6 apps, but my current #LineageOS phone is "FOSSer" than #Jolla's one. I'm actually looking at #PlasmaMobile on #postmarketOS as alternative

@strypey @rysiek and the Purism phone has poprietary wifi-drivers
@strypey @rysiek

> Hardly anyone uses it and #Jolla refuse to release all the source code for their UI under free licenses.

I wanted to be cautiously optimistic after last month's announcement, but they're not even answering comments on the post, so I can't.…

@rysiek @strypey
I also moved about 75 people to Signal. Some of them even use it to talk among themselves (not with me). There's no way I'm putting all that in danger by suggesting another move.

@rysiek @strypey What's the motivation for Whisper doing this? Is it just security through control?

Signal does show that people will adopt the right apps. I've been pleasantly surprised how many friends and family like it.

@sullybiker @strypey

tl;dr software freedom only makes sense as long as moxie remains in control

(yes, I am being bitter about this)

@rysiek @strypey Thanks for the link. The tone reminds me a lot of Lennart, actually, and I say that in as neutral a way as possible.

@rysiek @sullybiker @strypey
now that you posted this link, I feel compelled to post this response:
by Daniel Gultsch's of

@Wolf480pl @rysiek @sullybiker @strypey

For example, subscriptions to ticket trackers could be sold

You wanna open a ticket ?

You need to buy a 10$ annual subscription

Reading and triaging bugs is work and it should be payed

If that makes you outraged you are probably forgetting the "free" is intended as in freedom, not as in beer

@Wolf480pl @rysiek @sullybiker @strypey

When enough value will be accrued in a project, corporations will come

Corporations use to invest in order to open or develop markets

The free software community should do the same

Probably not with comparable amounts of money

But still...

@AbbieNormal @rysiek @sullybiker @strypey
Well, in many cases the developer would be happy if people reported the bug. You want to know when you've made a mistake, right?

Feature requests OTOH....

@kropot @strypey @Wolf480pl @rysiek @sullybiker

Yes I already read about Gitea in the past

I just didn't know that issues allowed the things that were discussed in this thread

I agree that estimates are weak, but I can think of two possibilities that might also work: one is the devs set a price, and the other that the users set a bounty. Each has pluses and minuses. The big plus is "all within the same environment, not a separate site".

@strypey @AbbieNormal @rysiek @sullybiker

@bhaugen @Wolf480pl @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker

Those are all interesting ideas but they are a bit more complicated than what I proposed

I proposed to sell the access to the issue tracker. That's all

@bhaugen @Wolf480pl @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker

Software production is craftsmanship

What's needed to achieve targets is not measurable.

And it's not a given that users know what they want, or that they share the vision with the devs

I wouldn't overcomplicate because then implementation gets more difficult and you run into overlaps with uman issues (differences in vision, motivation)

@bhaugen @Wolf480pl @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker

You risk this thing to fail and you couldn't even point precisely to a reason why

I'd keep it simple

The community needs to produce some more revenue right now without the need to implement new processes whose implementation would eat up the new revenue produced

I'd try to keep this more down to hearth

@AbbieNormal @bhaugen @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker
I think it's already very hard to get people to report bugs, as opposed to just giving up and coming to a conclusion that the piece of software is shit and will never work.

It's even harder to get quality bug reports.

Putting up a paywall in front of that will guarantee that more people will give up before filing a bug report.

@Wolf480pl @bhaugen @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker

But it will also guarantee that the reactions will be of a higher quality

Repeating over and over that the problem of floss is money without acting won't help

Gamifying the software production process is a silly idea

The problem doesn't need more tech

It needs people to step out of their comfort zones

@AbbieNormal @bhaugen @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker
Well I kinda disagree with the argument that the problem of FLOSS is money, but not sure if you want to debate it now.

@AbbieNormal @bhaugen @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker
Hmm... yeah I forgot I posted that.

Now that I think of it, it really depends on what kinda project you're developing and your target audience.

A lot of projects would benefit more from making it easy for users to become contributors and help fix the issues they encounter.

But then for a project that targets mostly non-technical people, money probably would be more effective.

@AbbieNormal @bhaugen @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker
Btw. I know one project which has a bug tracker behind a paywall.

Red Hat.

@Wolf480pl @bhaugen @strypey @rysiek @sullybiker

I didn't know

RedHat has been a huge contributor and quite tech inclined, indeed

@strypey @Wolf480pl @bhaugen @rysiek @sullybiker

Maybe you're right

That could help

Bring it on !

I for one would like to raise money to provide Guile with a debugger

The one it has is broken

@strypey @bhaugen @Wolf480pl @rysiek @sullybiker

If you're not ready to spend 10$ in a year, you won't be a great contributor anyway

@strypey @bhaugen @Wolf480pl @rysiek @sullybiker


Visionary devs could come up with visions that users only understand after having experienced that

Corporate sw and free sw don't need to be the same thing

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