rysiek ✅
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Wait, what. Windows 10 sends info on USB devices plugged in directly to Microsoft?

And it does that using pure HTTP?
pastebin.com/ttYp5rLg

You gotta be kidding me.

@rysiek Microsoft is digging at rates not yet seen!

@rysiek
As early as Windows 7, when you opened up the Devices and Printers control panel, there was an option to "Obtain device information from the internet" (or some wording to that effect) which would retrieve graphics for printers and such, so they wouldn't show up with generic icons. I wonder if this is *that*, but perhaps without asking for permission, and of course being done insecurely as it may have been all along.

Windows 7+: Device Metadata Packages Show more

Windows 7+: Device Metadata Packages Show more

Windows 7+: Device Metadata Packages / Security Show more

Windows 7+: Device Metadata Packages / Security Show more

@rysiek well I guess Microsoft and the world now knows I've been running with a cheap knockoff XBox 360 wireless receiver. maybe that's why it gets increasingly difficult to use :P
@rysiek interesting, I have always expected that. Probably Microsoft (and Google Chrome) also collects MAC addresses.
@rysiek interesting, I have always expected that. Probably Microsoft (and Google Chrome) also collects MAC addresses.

@mcscx yeah, but the biggest WTF for me is the clear text channel used.

@rysiek
Simple fix, block the address your machine is connecting to on your router. Boom no more "Telemetry" to that address.

@taek sure. How does that affect updates? Are the IP addresses the same? Will it potentially fsck with automatic updates?..

This is not a solution.

@rysiek
Well, it shouldn't affect updates or IP addresses at all, since you're blocking the hostname not the IP address.

@taek ah, ok. Well, that requires DPI on the router, though.

@rysiek
pfSense and Untangle shouldn't have a problem doing it. If you have a SOHO (cheap wifi/router/switch combo), it probably wont do it. Some do though.

@taek yeah, question is how many other hostnames do I have to block to stop leaking this kind of info.

Ugh, or I could move people off of Windows. Fun fact, slowly this is happening.

@rysiek
That's a very good question, the answer is, I don't freakin know, could be thousands!

@taek @rysiek Why not just resolve it to 0.0.0.0 in the hosts file?

@taek @rysiek

Like putting duct tape over a single hole in a sinking ship, the simple fix is installing an OS that doesn't spy on you.

@dvn yeah, posted the same image today, in a different context. ;)

@rysiek
This is Microsoft you're talking about. There is no level of incompetence or amorality to which they will not sink.

@rysiek i hope someone made a mistake somewhere with this

@szbalint doubt it. The paste is mine, observed in our own infra.

@rysiek @scroom
Any non-geek buying a win10 pc and clicking through will be sending a *mountain* of info to redmond.

Even a geek can't stop it entirely during install on a business pc. The only 100% cure is to cfg the router I suppose.

For a friend I'd... <screech!> ... well, I wouldn't let a friend use the thing or any ms code.

20 years ago I told everyone if they wouldn't use gnu/linux or bsd they could find another someone to help them. Lost exactly zero friends, but lost a lot of probs

@rysiek @scroom
Before I instituted the only linux/bsd rule it did get to that point. I was overwhelmed with the lunacy of ppl running ms and clicking on all the things...

@gemlog @rysiek

Me too. Unfortunately I have to work with MS systems at work.

@scroom You know what's even worse? At least I can use MacOS at work but my boss now thinks he needs to shift everything to Microsoft Exchange because that's the only external software that cooperates with some strange time tracking platform. Yes, I tried to convince him to use alternatives… @rysiek @gemlog

@scroom @rysiek Me too :(

20 years ago i hoped everyone would be using *nix. Today they are!

Everywhere but the desktop :-(

Websites are linux or bsd. Same for cell phones. Every top 100 super computer is linux. Alarms and control. Routers and other embedded systems...

At least the servers at work are linux.

@gemlog @scroom @rysiek There are already companies running Linux/BSD only on Desktop too. I have the advantage of owning the company and we run 3 busniess areas. All jobs are done Linux/BSD only. Mobile still some IOS stuff, but willing and more than happy to buy Librem 5 if they make it to the market. Actually there is only FOSS Software used on Desktop/Servers, changed VMWare to Promox too and it looks like its working out as expected.

@kmj @scroom @rysiek
I work only a few hours a day at just one place now, but I used to do IT for a bunch of places with 10-20 pc's. I mostly had everyone on linux eventually. 1) kill IE and give everyone FF 2) give everyone Ooffice (no libreoffice yet) 3) tbird for email 4) install linux and no one notices ;-)
1 mgr was a hold-out for msw. I took a screenshot, gave him the same wallpaper and put all his icons in the same place. He didn't notice ;-)

@gemlog @scroom @rysiek I do think, replacing Office with Open/LibreOffice and handling E-Mails with Thunderbird is the key to success. After that non-techie people don't care which OS they run on. Add DigiKam, Riot, Mastodon, and other stuff and they will be happy. Except brainwashed ones, angry they must learn something new. :-)

@kmj @scroom @rysiek Other than that one manager, I find people are pretty o/s agnostic. Especially at work.

Also, in the workplace you don't have to contend with games not working, which ties many ppl to windows at home.

Long ago I realized no on actually *needed* java on their winpc. So I took it off everywhere. PITA to update all the time. 1 secretary complained: games wouldn't work ;-)

Phones are another matter. apple fan boiz and gurlz. Same for (back in the day) blackberry fans.

@gemlog @scroom @rysiek in regards of phones I have to state, that IOS is running here too. I tried one Samsung Tablet, running Android 6/7, but this is unusable for Business Phones/Tablet. I tried to set it up without Google, Fdroid only. Was partially possible, but in background things are still running, trying to call home. Firewall without root only tries to block outoing and don't start from time to time, so things can call home again. Librem5 hopefully clears this for us.

@kmj @scroom @rysiek
Yes. Not only the brand loyalty. Phones pose a technical problem. I had high hopes of a pure-play linux phone a few times, but... hasn't panned out yet.

@kmj @gemlog @scroom yes, exactly. Plus great helpdesk to deal with the issues as they appear (and they will appear), so that users do not feel the need to switch back to a more familiar environment.

@kmj @scroom @rysiek My own government frustrates me.
Our large school district was managed with gpl s/w coded by a local. It was on e.g. freshmeat and used in a few other places in our province and in random places over the world. 1 day someone had lunch with someone and the govt mandated everyone buy microsoft!
Also, forced to use msw by pharmacare & bc med (govt) at my current employ. It's damn frustrating frankly.

@gemlog @scroom @rysiek time is on FOSS side, but for sure if marketing budget comes in, somebody wiill heavily try to let people run stuff they sale. Interesting side is that more and more Administrators knowing what they do are showing up. These educated guys will replace the clicki-clicki guys. If Amins know what they do, they love setting things up in Linux/BSD. The ones only know where they clicked, without idea why its working now, will be step by step replaces with OS Upgrades. :-)

@kmj @scroom @rysiek Seen it the other way tho. At one of the larger places i did with ~100 staff they interviewed several local IT firms to take over from me. I gave them network diagrams and docs. I explained how DRBD etc worked and they had a lot of custom scripts to automate projects and field work.
Within 3 months they nuked it all, and msw'd the place. Also, I gave them the db and public_html to host in my stead. Hacked and defaced in a week.
Even 25 yrs out I rejoice seeing linux on a pc.

@gemlog @scroom @rysiek i still think it will change. to much of these excel-sheet managers out there and they all have the companies leaned to the max. only thing the spare more money and hide their problem to run a company the serious way, is to reduce software costs with FOSS. i am sure this will happen soon.

@kmj @scroom @rysiek I truly hope you are right kmj.

Also, by happy coincidence I just read this post because of @jotbe

chaos.social/@clerie/100282384

LineageOS lineageos.org/
Maybe there's hope! :-)

@kmj @gemlog @scroom problem is that switching is a considerable up-front cost that needs good justification. Just "letting it slide" and paying more in the long run is easier to do in many places, sadly.

@rysiek @gemlog @scroom i agree with your not fired and upfron costs statement mostly. For me there are leaders, taking responsibility for their actions and Lemmings trying to protect their job without looking for the best for the company. Lemmings in meetings defends themselfs with "I bought what all others bought too, so I am not the one responsible." . Additionally, they throw out companies money to fullyfy their idea to defend their job as much as possible.

@kmj @gemlog @scroom sure.

My point, I guess, is that we need to get to the point that the lemmings will feel more comfortable with FLOSS than with proprietary shite.

@rysiek @kmj @scroom what more could it take as proof than pretty much EVERYthing else uses floss? Even microsoft these days.

@rysiek @kmj @gemlog @scroom step one: stop calling the audience you're trying to reach lemmings. More flies with honey.

@tw @rysiek @kmj @scroom I doubt anyone here is dumb enough to actually mount an argument with such a person using that language; it's a good point though.

It does happen that people who blindly buy into oracle, ibm, microsoft et al. are extremely unlikely to be reading this thread -- or any other about computers.

They are programmed by the advertising and the culture that arose from it. They don't seek information on a topic they are largely uninterested in other than a pay-cheque.

@gemlog @rysiek @kmj @scroom the way you refer to people privately inevitably colors your direct interactions with them. The world needs more respect.

I don't dispute the things you say many folks do. But calling them lemmings, whether they'll ever read it or not, doesn't move the conversation forward. How do we change the behaviors? How do we make F(L)OSS more appealing to them, or visible at all?

@gemlog @rysiek @kmj @scroom (and to be clear I say "you" emphatically in the plural here, not accusing anyone individually of anything, and I definitely understand the temptation of labeling like this)

@tw @rysiek @kmj @scroom I (gemlog) accepted your point and don't ... :-)
You headed me off already! Thanks!

@tw @rysiek @kmj @scroom It is possible to use English with some precision, but we're all too damned lazy ;-)

@tw @rysiek @kmj @scroom oh gee Tim -- and i dissed your company too! (just read your bio)

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