Off to the party now. Because, why not.

@Wolf480pl doesn't matter. Export controls on specialist software can also work. They just need to be enforced.

@rysiek
So you're saying that you're OK with export controls preventing open-source projects like nmap and gpg from being distributed across borders, and from having contributors from all over the world?

@Wolf480pl I am not, just like I am not okay with a hammer being used to hurt people.

Export controls are a blunt instrument. You can use them well, or badly. Saying we should not be using it at all because it can be abused is not going to get us anywhere.

@rysiek but can you come up with a criterium that will separate surveillence devices from encryption and pentesting tools? And then implement that criterium in legal code?

@Shamar
I know very little about law, but @rysiek 's recent presentation made it clear that we can't write computer code that doesn't have exploitable vulnerabilities. How are we supposed to write legal code that doesn't have exploitable vulnerabilities? Especially considering that our enemy has way more experience with writing and exploiting law than we have.

@Shamar @rysiek so you're saying that hackers are inherently disadvantaged at hacking laws, and your original proposition can't be made into reality?

@Shamar @rysiek
I'm not sure too many of hackers thin on planetary level. I mean, sure, when we think about "let's fix the web, and start by removing JS", we are not limiting our wrt. to an organization or a geographic region, but we're limiting our scope to a single issue that bothers us now... at lest that's how it works in my case. I almost never think about our civilisation as a whole, mostliy about a very specific aspect of it. Maybe I'm not a hacker then...

@Shamar @rysiek
Too many hashtags for me...

I'm not saying what is a hacker tool and what is not. If anything, I'm asking you - what is your definition of hacker?

I also state that if someone who tends to focus on a single problem without thinking at a scope of the whole humankind does not qualify as a hacker per your definition, then I don't qualify. I can accept that, as I've always assumed I'm still long ways from becoming a real hacker.

@Shamar @rysiek
also do note that I was considering
"maybe, by your def., forgetting to think about humanity as a whole makes you not-a-hacker"
and not
"maybe focusing on a single problem makes you not-a-hacker"

@Shamar @rysiek
But was Gates a hacker, or a Bay Area tech-entrepreur?

@Shamar @rysiek
Yeah.
IMO bitcoin is a very good experiment in ancap (anarcho-capitalism), which shows really well why ancap is no good, and free market, when left alone, doesn't lead to anything good.

@Wolf480pl yeah, I know.

I also treat it as a repository of links and headlines for future discussions.

@mulander thanks! Now I need to expand it into a full 45min.

@rysiek it's amazing that you fitted so much in such a small time slot already :)

I find it funny that you listed all events that usually show up on my radar. Especially holding manufacturers liable - you can't go to a shop and buy expired products yet I can go to a mobile operator and get a new phone on contract that already is past their security patch level (with no updates available) - that should be illegal.

@mulander absolutely! And kudos for many of these ideas go to @whvholst , I just stole them for my presentation.

@mulander @rysiek That makes a hell of a lot sense. never thought of it that way. (Nice Post)

@rysiek oh, btw I submitted your toot to lobste.rs (https://lobste.rs/s/krqqwa/make_technology_great_again) let me know if you want an invite.

@mulander thanks!

@pfm hah, sorry, are you still at the conference? Yesterday was crazy.

Instead of convincing, I try explaining and showing why password managers are useful, and why Signal is a good choice.

@rysiek @pfm how do you use signal with random contacts? Burner phone? I use signal with my wife and some friends but don't feel nice dropping my phone number online (just to avoid calls at random hours tbh).

@mulander @pfm that is a problem, yes. Signal is not perfect and I have said multiple times I take issue with some of their decisions -- mainly, using phone numbers as identifiers, and refusing to federate server-side.

I have my hopes up for Briar.

@rysiek @pfm Briar? Never herd that name before.

What is your take on matrix/riot? I'm optimistic but terrified on how the UI/flow for e2e crypto is done so far.

@mulander @pfm heard good things about Matrix, need to test it.

Briar is: https://briarproject.org

@notclacke hrhr, I made that mistake right at the very start. Took quite a while for the server to calm down again. :-D
It's a bit odd though that the only reasonable way to join the main channel is via an IRC bridge...

@rysiek Briar seems very very interesting, I couldn't spot it on their website but what protocol do they use for E2E?

@ckeen thanks!

@metalbob oh you didn't even get to Equifax debacle and Paris Orly airport being closed down for a few days because they were still running Windows 3.1 on a fog navigation computer? ;)

@Shamar re slide 58: it was Firefox that broke IE's monopoly. Chrome came later and did not have to fight this hard fight at all.

re slide 59: *some* programming, sure! But as context, as something to show kids that computers are *not* a black box, a magical device, but a *tool* they can own and modify, and make it do their bidding. But absolutely not as the whole subject, because most kids will get bored.

Additional classes for those interested too, of course!

@Shamar if you want to teach people logic, then teach people logic.

Programming is not the right tool for that. And I say this as a programmer and an educator.

And Firefox was why standards started being implemented and why Chrome could become a thing in the first place. Mozilla did all the heavy lifting of breaking the vendor-lock of the web. That is something that needs to be recognized.

When Netscape realized they where loosing the browser war against IE and Microsoft, they relased the code for what would became firefox.
Netscape idea with this was let the community join in and make alternatives to IE. Their fear and the reason why they did not want a IE monopoly, was the fear that as soon as there was á total monopoly of IE, Microsoft would use it to subvert web standards and with that screw everybody elses web hosting buisness:

"if the only used browser is IE and you want your site to load and all funtions working properly in IE best you use a server running Microsoft tech". As long as there was not a total monopoly of one browser, web standards would maintain. Firefox did that job, when there was no other alternative.

Chrome overtook IE in browser usage, because when it came up you still had web standards that firefox helped maintain.
Yes Chrome is the most used now, but not recognizing firefox's role in the history of the internet is erasing history and denying firefox the recognition it deserves.

@rysiek I quite enjoyed this talk, I'm tempted to quote it. As I like to do.

"So here’s the problem: best and brightest minds of our generation are hard at working getting people to click 1% more ads on Facebook or creating a new blockchain scam.

And there is no engineering in software engineering. We keep rebuilding everything from scratch, reinventing the wheel, all the time. C, C++, Java, Python, Ruby, JavaScript. . . redoing all libraries in the new language means we do not have time for security."

@rysiek

"What we’re dealing with is basically “insecurity as a business model”.

Companies focus on (proprietary) features, because that’s what they can put in bullet points, that’s what draws in the users – and locks them to a platform.

Switching to other, perhaps more secure software becomes hard, since it does not support these features. But also, these features are implemented badly, without security in mind. They become riddled with security problems."

@rysiek

"Think of Facebook. There is outrage now, as it has been in the past. What do people do? They set up Facebook groups to express their outrage. This is called Stockholm Syndrome. This is you vs. the tech industry today."

"Do we need some programming in schools? Sure, but just a bit. Just enough to show kids computers are not magical black boxes. They are tools. Tools we can and should control."

@rysiek

But seriously, listen to the whole thing!

@alcinnz thanks. Feel free to quote! :)