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BRING BACK THE DAYS WHEN YOU COULD LEARN WEB DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT WITH "VIEW SOURCE".

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@sanspoint also you could make a webpage without having to learn a minimum of two JavaScript build / packaging tools

@debugninja @sanspoint
I never liked javascript build systems, in fact I was the person in the @cryptpad team who kept any build system out of the project so to this day, a release is a git pull. Today I did a blog post about some of the challenges we faced doing modern web dev without compilation: blog.cryptpad.fr/2018/07/20/Ma

@sanspoint I mean... my site is near unreadable with 'view source' but that's just because I'm stripping unnecessary whitespace, the inspection tools in Firefox and Chrome can fix that. I do use a static generation tool on the final version to keep headings in sync easily, but my templates are pretty 'thin' and my development methodology consists of me tinkering with a big single file until it works and *then* slicing it up, so it's still quite readable once pretty-printed.

@sanspoint CSS layout is a bit of a Dark Art though, I ended up settling for Good Enough (it's not quite as pretty as I'd like on small screens like phones, but it's usable.

@sanspoint It'd be easy if I used CSS Grid, but then it'd respond poorly to smaller displays...

@keiyakins you could make a separate CSS for small displays though, right?

@ente I could but then I have to define 'small displays', and css has no way to do it sensibly that I can tell. You basically have to give it a fixed pixel width, not 'when this element needs to be wrapped'

@keiyakins I'm not saying it's pretty. I never learned CSS properly. I think if I'd need one, I'd ask someone who knows that kind of black magic.

@sanspoint bring back the days when you could learn programming by typing "LIST".

@mike @sanspoint even nowadays, on Linux and *BSD, your operating system comes with the tools to inspect all code running on the system, to patch it, to improve and recompile it and to send fixes, features and detailed bug investigation reports back upstream, and I think that's a beautiful thing about this free software world.

@sanspoint that would also make websites light and responsive again.

@sanspoint Would be nice. But now with the advent of Web Assembly that's pretty much impossible :/

@false_chicken @sanspoint tbf they're binary blobs that are designed to be easy to statically analyze.

@sanspoint i've made it a point to keep things that sensible on all my personal sites/games/etc, and as much as possible of the frontend stuff i touch at work. sad how ridiculous most sites are nowadays.

@sanspoint There's no going back in time... how can we move forward in a way where we have the same advantages? (e.g., look at how source is handled in Beaker Browser with DAT). Also, given that surveillance capitalism was birthed by the web, it's clear that view source didn't teach us any ethics - how do we make sure we incorporate that into future systems?

@sanspoint Why? It was only that simple because sites weren't that complex. Modern web sites are much more feature rich. The web is more complex than it was back in the day, but it's also more prevalent and powerful.
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