@skynebula
Just gotta wait until Todd Weaver himself cries that taking security seriously is despotic now. :blobcoffeeunamused:

Purism, thinking out loud 

Purism, thinking out loud 

@skynebula @purism
It's been discussed elsewhere, but their Mastodon service terms of use also bans personal attacks but not group attacks. So "I want to kill you" results in a ban, "All Jews/Blacks/Gays/whatever should be killed" does not result in a ban.

After I saw that, I won't support them.

@skynebula This seems to demonstrate that @purism takes privacy reports seriously, so is that an issue?

It's like saying, "This version of the Linux kernel has an exploit! Linux claims to be safer than Windows! You should stop using Linux!"

@lwriemen @skynebula @purism shipping with trackers even after someone called attention to them doesn't inspire confidence at all, reallt

@LogicalDash But is it worthy of the stop recommendation by @skynebula? Or is it more deserving of a caution note?

There seems to be a lot people looking for @purism to stumble, whether due to their no censorship stance, their advertising, or ???

@lwriemen @skynebula @purism yes, I would consider ignoring a warning from a reputable source to be worth ceasing business over

@lwriemen @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism You're looking for a conspiracy where there's most probably none. As far as I'm concerned, Purism has had a great track record until they launched Librem One. I thought they were a hardware company, so this move was unexpected, and for me entirely unwarranted.

Then they took a public neutral stance on hate speech on their instance, which started to be worrying because Mastodon was founded in large part against hate speech.

Then there's that. As a corporation, they now have had a pretty standard track record when it comes to bad PR moves, but the reason I liked them in the first place is because I thought they were trying not to behave like a standard company.

My opinion is that they're being heavily criticized for stumbling because they set the expectations pretty high. The FOSS world is demanding because of the higher standards and any regular business practices will be frowned upon.

@hypolite
"thought they were a hardware company"
... with the exception of PureOS? ???

"FOSS world ... higher standards"
Are these defined somewhere? Is there a standards committee? ;-)
Is Purism somehow violating copyleft somewhere?

"regular business practices"
I don't have a clue what you're trying to imply here? rebranding? subscription charges? paid employees? ???

@LogicalDash @skynebula @purism

@lwriemen @hypolite @LogicalDash @purism
They violated so many FLOSS licences (and ethics) when launching Librem One

@skynebula
Which ones? The only thing I've seen is that they failed to explicitly state the rebranding aspect. From what I've seen in the code I've looked at, everything seems pretty copyleft compliant.

@hypolite @LogicalDash @purism

@lwriemen @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism Regular business practices: mishandling users’ privacy, either through tracking, poor security or plain trading, frigid stance on hate speech moderation, rebranding and appropriation of FOSS. These behaviors are widespread among companies, and generally of little consequence, outside of the FOSS world, that is.

@hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @lwriemen @purism It is not all lost though. I think they can still save this. They just have to acknowledge that things went wrong.

This includes to take stance against hate speech and give full recognition to the creators of their software.

I all for free speech... but free speech does not include harassment. Harassment is the opposite of free speech.

I am also one of those who cheered on them... but this stuff makes me hesitate.

@shellkr @LogicalDash @skynebula @lwriemen @purism I'm with you, I still want to trust them, but they are making it really hard.

@shellkr
They already took a stance against harassing other users, and have already acknowledged where their software originated. ...or are you just spreading FUD?

@hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism

@lwriemen @hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism Give me sources then... I have not seen it. I looked multiple times after they launched the service and nowhere could I see they acknowledge the creators properly.

@lwriemen @hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism

You just made me look at librem.one page again..... and nowhere is an acknowledgement!

They even start with this message.. "Purism is a Social Purpose Corporation (SPC), which means we put social good above exploiting people. Librem One is a bundle of services—chat, vpn, email, social, and more—from Purism, SPC."

@shellkr
You're right. Their website doesn't make the information easily available. I saw their apology statement somewhere, but they could easily put "based on" in more visible places. It's obvious in the repositories, but those are less public.

@hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism

@lwriemen @hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism Yeah, which sadly is my point.... I hope they retract from their current stance as I really really want them to succeed. I am just not as excited right now as I was previously..

@shellkr
I think their target audience for Librem One are non-technical, for which the "based on" probably wouldn't matter and might just give confusion.

As a developer, the only thing that matters is the adherence to the copyleft in the repository. If I want to brag on it, I can do that on my own.

@hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism

@lwriemen @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism For me it matters... and I am a potential customer. Their target audience are privacy aware and not a typical iPhone buyer. So don't really agree there either...

@shellkr
Non- technical doesn't mean privacy unaware/uncaring. I view it as someone who doesn't know what services to turn to. The fact that you know Librem One is using existing software means you are already aware of routes to privacy. @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism

@lwriemen @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism I find it hard that a user who grapple privacy would freak out when they hear "based on"... I just don't think people are that stupid..

Anyway.. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I will not change my mind how I think about this.

@shellkr
It is stated and explained here:
puri.sm/posts/how-purism-works

And yes, it could be much more visible. As could be the apks for download. At least their Tusky version is now on fdroid. Where are the links to their source-repos?

I believe they're well-meaning but still struggle to learn some cultural basics.
@lwriemen @hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism

@toxomat @lwriemen @hypolite @LogicalDash @skynebula @purism

Just saw this librem.one/stay-safe/ and I am starting to feel more confident about Librem again. It would be interesting to know what they deem as harassment though. Like racist slurs e.t.c..

@skynebula @purism the vulnerability was a vulnerability and I actually appreciate their transparency and how they managed it. Things like that can happen, but they handled it in a very good way.

@skynebula The tracker issue is then probably an issue for the upstream app. But this needs more details.

@skynebula @purism

"All Librem One services are hosted on a single Digital Ocean droplet"

Come again?

@skynebula @purism Show me a company committed to the same principles as Purism, and I'll show you another company I'm willing to forgive.

@Phaserune @skynebula @purism at this point, they're about as committed to privacy principles as friggin' Google. Blobs in a "deblobbed" phone, federation without moderation, and now "private" chat with trackers? This company is a scam.

@flussence @purism Oh, come on. I am not defending their software services here, but they are taking excruciating pains to get us a phone as deblobbed as possible. E.g. it will contain a dedicated 2nd modem where electricity can actually be shut off, rather than using the built in modem in the baseband chip which cannot be controlled this way. Calling that a scam is tough. And what is a scam in federation without moderation? Their TOS are clear, you don't like it, don't use it.

@flussence Sorry, but posting in a public social medium has the tendency to invite others' opinions. And while I have answered in an impersonal and factual manner, you resort to condescending insults. Sucks to have a crack in your echo chamber? Have a very nice day, Sir.

@Phaserune @purism @skynebula would you be willing to forgive the fact that they give a platform to fascists by intentionally not moderating fash content? I’m not.

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