@kurtm yeah, I feel like a cunt for labouring on at it, but if they're going to take the moral high ground they need to uphold it. You can't say, "Our community's toxic" then say that toxic behaviour's acceptable because of who it's aimed at. I think there's a term for that.

@kurtm it's not just me, someone else tried to complain and got fobbed off: https://pay.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/8qhm9n/disappointed_in_freebsd_coc/

@nblr if it was an argument, maybe. If it's just people swearing and screaming at the speaker on stage, no.

If it's people swearing and screaming at the speaker on stage after specifically agreeing not to disrupt discussion as per a CoC, then hell no.

@stevelord Wasn’t there, can’t judge, but talking always beats not talking.

@nblr here's the vid if you're interested https://youtu.be/UaQpvXSa4X8?t=19m35s - no worries if not.

My main beef is Conduct Team's responses imply they don't want to acknowledge a clear cut CoC violation, after all the pain and anguish when it went in. If it's not going to be handled, what's the point in having one?

@stevelord Don’t ask me. I find them a waste of time and an unsuitable tool - q.e.d.

@stevelord having watched the video i feel even more so. What a waste of my time. Sometimes people feel strongly and express it that way. It’s not pretty and they should resolve it, but it happens and isn’t worth mulling. Should have ignored this thing at first sight - mentioning a CoC was already a red flag - usually people involving CoCs in their arguments lack other more substantial arguments.

@AFresh1 I'm not sure making the people do the walk of shame GoT style is the right move, but #FreeBSD needs to state that this isn't acceptable behaviour and hold people to, or update the CoC it fought so hard for.

@stevelord @AFresh1 wow. Just read that email. That is a sucky position. Shouting obscenities at speakers should not be allowed. (Unless it’s at Steve. And then hecklers better beware. 😜) Public condemnation of public bad behaviour is the right answer

@paco @AFresh1 I normally let things slide but that's because I've done stand-up comedy and my crowd-work is ok, but it doesn't make it right at all. Imagine if that happened to a 15 year old girl presenting on something cool she did with FreeBSD?

@stevelord @AFresh1 Yeah. I've seen your work. :) I completely agree with you. I think it's awesome when someone like you basically goes up and says "come at me, bro" because the whole thing is entertaining. But you're absolutely right: Those are not the ground rules that speakers should expect or accept. And conference organisers should have supported better. I love FreeBSD. This whole thing makes me sad.

@paco @AFresh1 I made the mistake of posting a thread on /r/freebsd, and have been getting attacked by rabid fanboys. I'm hoping to have a proper chat with the guy in question as he's actually on the conduct team.

@stevelord a public response to a public violation seems completely appropriate to me. Even if it is the project doing the public response, not the individual. However, saying "what happened was fine" is not an appropriate response IMO

@AFresh1 @stevelord See also https://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/msg162035.html

@stevelord @AFresh1 there is a lot of weaseling going on in that statement. Which I think made it worse. I would have been fine with: "We agree, it's against our CoC but it's not the end of the world. The person in question got a firm talking to and asked to not do it again. We'll leave it at that."
The CoC seems to allow to handle it like that.

@florian @AFresh1 Someone else complained, and the response they got was here: https://pay.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/8qhm9n/disappointed_in_freebsd_coc/ - they're saying it's not against their CoC and that's not how it's being handled.

@stevelord @AFresh1 I was aware of that one, too and find that a much better response than the one you got.

I can actually live with that one.

I read the last sentence in the response you got as: "Verbal abuse is kinda ok as long as it's directed at (people associated with) OpenBSD because there is a perception that OpenBSD people are abusive."

I don't think CoCs work like that.

I'm associated with OpenBSD and I don't want to be the recipient and be told it's ok.

@florian @stevelord @AFresh1
I can see how your reading it, but it is the one that jumped out at me as "It's OK, they were only yelling at Theo" first. Yeah, it's more weasel worded with "not really out-of-step with communication norms in that setting, and between those individuals." But it's still a cop-out. Sure, if this was off in a corner of a hallway with only a handful of participants, sure, I could see this response. With the biggest room at the conference packed full? No.

@kurtm @stevelord @AFresh1
I agree that the 2nd response is not perfect. We (the BSD and/or tech community) still have a lot to learn and do better.

How about this (originally posted by @akpoff https://bsd.network/@akpoff/100178688205342116 ):

@florian @kurtm @AFresh1 @akpoff I like this picture. It's a good picture. Also [obscenity] systemd.

@florian @stevelord @AFresh1 Yeah. The fact they are doing *more* damage than the incident is something I stated in my letter.