ugh i really hope crossposters don't slowly choke mastodon like they did to diaspora*

if you're just crossposting everything you tweet on birdsite then what even is the point of making a mastodon account? that's glorified spam at worst, and a recipe for abandonment.

@DarkestKale i don't wanna give up on them entirely but they're not really doing themselves or the wider network any favors. hard to imagine anyone actually caring to subscribe to auto-posts that just aggregate a feed already present elsewhere... except maybe, like, a website or RSS feed or something? I dunno.

@trwnh I dunno. I was on DIaspora and used the post to tumblr feature it had, for some of my posts, and it felt just the same. Had many interactions on D*.

To me, it all started to go down the hill after Ilya died, and then some drama that I don't even want to undig. It took me 6 years to almost-forget. :x

Having this said: yay, a fellow Diasporian! :D

Also: in general, I agree with you on this.

@eloisa Well, Diaspora* and Tumblr are different. Diaspora* has more overlap with Facebook, in that it's essentially a profile page (and not strictly a microblog).

The people I knew who made the jump from '09-'10 era Facebook did one of two things: 1) go back to Facebook, or 2) abandon Facebook-like platforms entirely for microblogs (like Twitter or Tumblr).

And then Google+ came out and totally aped any chance at success Diaspora* had, as "essentially the same thing but backed by Google".

@eloisa also RIP ilya :( i remember being torn up about that.

@trwnh oh, yeah. I remember the "good ole times" when G+ launched and I had to explain ppl that NO, D* does NOT look like G+, it's the other way around! D: Gah. Still to this day I have to say this to some people who disappoint me because come on, if you're into Open Source, Social Media platforms et al, this was basic knowledge! D:

@eloisa "wow hey these circles are pretty cool" uh, excUSE ME, they're called ASPECTS,,,,

@trwnh G'awful, we could even make a bingo chart out of things like that! ugh

@eloisa speaking of which... I wish those caught on somehow. Maybe they were TOO prominent in the UX and therefore confusing. But, well, it's nice to control who can see what. Unfortunately, it only works with two-way connections -- if someone is just "following" you, then you need a DIFFERENT categorization system for the other direction.

@trwnh Ah! I had a flashback to "the aspect's esprit" rip-off when I heard about Vero and how they make everyone put people in aspects (they call it something else) before being able to accept a request. They also have a follow, for when you're not mutuals/friends, but again, nothing new in the social media verse - and so, the output to the public sphere stays the same.

@eloisa I have to admit I didn't pay any attention to Vero at all, lol.

@trwnh I deal with social media, so I *kinda had to* at least check what all the fuss was about. xD

@trwnh true, when I jumped ship I went to Twitter and Tumblr for some solace. Now, Mastodon, am liking it. Wish I had known about it sooner, too!

@eloisa I feel old, I've had this account since November 2016 and I can't remember ever making it. My memory of using this platform just jolted OnLine after the Great April Wave.

@trwnh I have it since Nov 17, but only really started using it now.

I haven't been very well health-wise, especially between April 2016 and Nov, 17. And this affected my decisions regarding use of social media, etc.

It still does, but now 'm slowly but surely coming back to my old self (it's a lie, we never really come back, but you get the picture, I hope), and thus, starting to enjoy things again, like Mastodon, etc. :)

@eloisa Ah, yeah, I definitely feel ya on that. July 2016-forward was a pretty dark time hanging over my head. I use social media a lot less now than I did from 2011-2016, but I enjoy it almost as much as 2008-2011.

@trwnh Yeah, cross-posting is one of those things that seems reasonable on the surface, but actually it enables users to become dependent on the very networks they're trying to leave.

@deadsuperhero idk about "become dependent", since it's moreso that you end up abandoning the network you put less effort into.

@trwnh this is a totally reasonable viewpoint! for me, i do it because i have disjoint sets of friends on each site, and i do my very best to keep CWing stuff even from birdsite :x

@tastymochafox i feel ya. personally if i log into twitter i usually post totally different things there, but if i was crossposting i'd do it mastodon -> twitter because i care less about twitter -- i've already given up on it.

for a new person who signs up to mastodon and has 0 friends, setting up a crossposter means they don't interact with anyone, so no one follows them, so they don't show up in feeds, so they think it's a ghost town and quit.

@trwnh yeah 100% agreed with that... c'est la vie; I too wish I could 100% abandon Twitter.

@trwnh I think the crossposting should be the other way around.
I think it’s what I ended up doing back when I was using friendica.

@lanodan yeah, i had another toot about this but it seems to have been sucked into a black hole

@trwnh The only thing I crosspost from Twitter here are my blog links when I publish a new cartoon. Maybe some news.

Other than that, nada.

@flugennock oh, that's fine, but you still drop in here to check notifications and you post other things as well, right? that's different than just setting up an "abandoned mirror" account

@xj that fixes it for you or me, but not for the new person who signs up to check out this new mastodon thing and tries to reply to an account that was set up by some schmuck who simply set up a crossposter and then never logged into mastodon again

anyway, there's been enough genuine growth since i posted this that i'm less worried about mastodon being choked out

@trwnh what if someone's doing POSSE, i.e. writing blog posts and posting links to it on every socnet they have account on?

@Wolf480pl that's fine, most people will recognize your account is a feed and not really an active person

with crossposting stuff from twitter, the result *looks* like it's a person but it's actually not; it's often some person that made a mastodon account to crosspost, and then probably never logged in again. they're not genuinely giving mastodon / the fediverse a "chance", they're setting themselves up for abandonment. here's another toot from back in november about it

@trwnh Sometimes I crosspost, but I do it manually. And usually Mastodon is first/preferred, sometimes I hit up Twitter, and rarely, tap my Google+ bros.

@trwnh I don’t know. I’m still a beginner on mastodon, maybe halfway in the migration from twitter. I post original content first on mastodon, but can’t give up twitter for news/friends. In the long term, I don’t have the time and energy to be active on two networks.

On the software side, Amaroq is not as good as Tweetbot, but as Twitter is working hard to cripple 3rd party apps, this won’t matter.

>i post original content first on mastodon
so you're still at least trying to use mastodon and giving it a fair chance, then; you're fine!

>in the long term, i don't have the time and energy to be active on two networks
and most people don't either! that's why they end up gravitating to whichever network is their "primary". to say nothing of people who *only* sign up for masto to link a crossposter, and then never sign in again...

@trwnh I get your point, but there are yet not enough meaningful posts here to encourage a one service commitment.

@grabe and there won't be, if no one commits to making meaningful posts

although this has definitely gotten better since i first made the OP in november. there are enough people to follow here to generate a feed of interesting stuff now, and either i've muted enough of the worst offenders or they've stopped signing up as much.

@trwnh just ignore and interact with interesting people. it worked on very well on gnusocial and the fediverse before mastodon came into play, even though it was very small.

@neomorph it actually didn't work very well because most of the interesting people abandoned it... including me. crossposting from twitter to joindiaspora just meant I gravitated to twitter by default

@trwnh That's why I haven't started crossposting. So much of what I post on birdsite is highly context-dependent anyway

@trwnh the point is that this is where we should be, but some people can't or simply don't know they should be leaving birdsite.

Probably 99.9% of twitter users have never even heard of the fediverse. It won't be for a long time until we can ignore birdsite and post entirely here.

@jeffcliff and you'll probably never interact with 99.9% of twitter users

as for ignoring birdsite... depends on what you're trying to get out of it. I've been disengaging slowly throughout 2017 and gave up on it almost entirely for 2018. twitter is actively biasing its service away from conversations and social graphs, and in favor of viral and curated content. I can't even be sure my tweets are showing up in people's feeds anymore. :birdsite:

@trwnh not for lack of effort. I intend on being big enough that even twitter can't ignore me.

@trwnh ...and then when twitter kicks me off all the people will say 'you have to get a mastodon* account in order to read his tweets'. Kind of like @textfiles was for awhile.

@jeffcliff @textfiles Well, that could happen given anyone "large enough" deleted their Twitter entirely and went all-in on the open social web. Entire niches of the community could be carved out around something as simple as a podcast. But a lot of people are slaves to the network effects; perhaps their livelihoods depend on it, they think. And they're probably right to some degree, depending on how much presence or staying power they have outside of Twitter ("IRL").

@trwnh If it makes you feel any better, I'm actually an example of something precisely the opposite - I have never even HAD a twitter account, and joined Mastodon because it looked cool rather than because I was migrating.

So there's one datapoint - Mastodon, in its current form, is a cool enough set of communities that I actually thought it was worth checking out without any consideration of it being a "twitter alternative". That seems like a healthy sign.

@SenorOblong i'm not super-worried about that anymore, because there are enough "real people" on here to follow now :) Although, the general point re: crossposters still stands, as stated in the 2nd half and also here:

There are still many people who think Mastodon is a dumping ground for their tweets to get more attention, which creates a bad experience for others casually browsing the public timelines. I mute them, but new users will see them in droves.

@trwnh reddit has subreddits, i wonder if i'll miss that here.

Follow is really binary yes/no. Can't follow on some topics and not others? Like, maybe have accounts able to indicate hashtags they can be followed on.

For instance tech, personal, poetry, politics, etcetera.

That said, reddit is topic-sorted by default, hashtags wouldn't be. Could also wonder how accurate machine learning might be..

@jasper Personally for that issue, I support having content categories for each user, like google+ collections. Then you could un/follow certain collections, and following a profile has you following all collections by default.

Maybe that's similar to asking users to hashtag everything, but idk, tags and categories aren't exactly the same...

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