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It's fucked. It's all fucked. Signal is announcing in the newest beta verstion integration of a random crypto shitcoin. Gonna attract all the crazies nobody wants in this.

Gonna trigger a mass exodus after so many years fighting to have people to use the app and all the alternatives are not good enough.

Really tired of changing messaging platforms every 2 years on my life.

@vascorsd Two or three years ago I put my bet on XMPP+Omemo and I still like it. Federated, portable, secure, with good clients.

@roobre I also have it installed in the computer, all 2 or 3 clients and on the phone 2 apps for it. But unfortunately it is really really lacking for what is expected nowadays of messaging apps. All the desktop clients honestly suck / are ugly. Problems initializing conversations with mismatched encryption schemes and the worst for me is the difficulty on managing the keys and knowing which belongs to which device.

@vascorsd Yeah, lack of features is certainly a thing in XMPP. The standard being so heterogeneous doesn't help because it is very hard to get all clients to move in the same direction.
I use Dino as a desktop client and it's quite sleek and functional, it has really improved in the last two years.

@roobre Yep, I use it sometimes when I want to check things out, new releases and all.

But over the years we really lost a lot. Pidgin was the at the peak of desktop client chat usability, nothing ever since quite truly does it right.

Dino is just so, lacking, plain, I don't know...

@vascorsd Yeah, it is purposefully simple but other than the lack of settings, I'd say it looks and works pretty well. At least I haven't missed any feature on it that other client has.

@vascorsd @manchot @roobre but the worst thing is that most stock androids killing that background service and my (non tech) friends don't receive my messages. :(

@Xystel @manchot @roobre

That's an onboarding problem in the app initial setup process. Because all and any messaging app suffers from the same I believe...

The problem is that people don't really want things sucking their baterry and that's the main reason for people not wanting more than one app with special permission to be always on in the background :/

@Xystel @vascorsd @manchot I seee this popping often but I've never have a problem with it. I think my Conversations install doesn't even has the "Battery optimizations ignored" flags and I've never missed a message, running LineageOS without Gapps.
iOS is another story tho.

@vascorsd @roobre I use Psi+. It doesn't try to be a phone UI shoehorned onto a computer.

@vascorsd shitcoins are shit :(

Guess it encourages Sphinx chat adoption.

@vascorsd I'm trying to find an answer to this seemingly-simple question: does Mobilecoin use energy-wasting "mining" like Bitcoin and Ethereum? Signal's creators seem so blithely feckless about everything else it wouldn't surprise me if they just used POW and brush off criticism, but a person can dream...

@seachaint I found this may be relevant too - platformer.news/p/-the-battle-

This new shitcoin seems to be based or on top of Stellar network. I don't remember the full details of the mining details, but some years ago the whole point of stellar was to be a layer for the big players (I mean banks) to settle stuff between them.

@vascorsd session is pretty nice and easy to use too. I've been trying to encourage people to use that one.

@free_appalachia I've checked it some time ago.

Is it an updated fork of Signal using the same servers so I could be using this client and others Signal or is it a complete new app and network that everyone has to install yet again?

@vascorsd its a totally new app, but its also very different technically. It doesn't require a phone number, and it can maintain anonymity as well as secure messaging, but it doesn't support video calls.

@free_appalachia I should check it out again more properly and see how it is.

Video calls... I'm not one the target users of that feature fortunately, so doesn't bother me. Phone calls, without the video, now that one I would use.

@vascorsd
The app and its developers are connected to the alt-right scene, and therefore I think it shouldn't be used.

Here is a thread at the bird side, with some info regarding this:
mobile.twitter.com/WPalant/sta
@free_appalachia

@vascorsd

You could have switched to XMPP just right in time. ;)

@textbook Have no fear, I'm also there.

But for my other tech people, real world friends that want to have fewer apps, it was a big win when a few weeks ago with the whole wutsup thing, I was able to move them to signal and they all moved a bunch of groups from other platforms to there too.

I was with some of them there already and others on keybase.

I don't see being able to move people again so soon.

@vascorsd

Yeah, that's a good point. Folks with no fear even to do the weirdest trip into Africa, Himalaya or somewhere, refuse like an old oak tree when it comes to moving between messengers.

Can't explain ... :'(

@Pelican3301 Been aware of it for long, Very early I had an account. Never actually used it with other people.

I don't know why, but it never really passed on my smell test, it's a vibe of somekind and it never clicked with me.

At least of one of the few where I could ever read the code and contribute since it's in programmed in scala 😅

@vascorsd Also Briar. I had problems with it crashing on startup on my note20 and they fixed the bug promptly from logs I sent them. Like Mastodon, small is, in quite a few ways, better. I don't use messengers much. I keep them mostly if others request their use. I entirely gave up telegram when they demanded a phone number months after account creation and rejected my Gvoice #. Damned if I'll ever give a site my REAL number.

@Pelican3301 I've struggled for so long to not give my phone number anywhere but in the end it had to happen somewhere.

It really boggles my mind how people claim to just use it everywhere as if it was a throwaway email or something, when phone number is such a core, essential, identifiable and trackable unique personal identifier durable for decades.

@vascorsd Some wag once said the one thing orwell never expected was that people would voluntarily submit to and relish being surveilled.

@ColinTheMathmo

Your chart is ready, and can be found here:

solipsys.co.uk/Chartodon/10601

Things may have changed since I started compiling that, and some things may have been inaccessible.

The chart will eventually be deleted, so if you'd like to keep it, make sure you download a copy.

@vascorsd That's why still everyone out in my environment, despite fancying alternatives once in a while, still stays at WhatsApp: It's where the people are, and there's no consistent alternative anyway as you can be _sure_ any other system will receive profound bashing and people calling you to leave and move on sooner or later. With WhatsApp, you're used to that (and to ignoring that, too). 😐

@vascorsd no no no no no no no no NO NO NO PLEASE NO

what am i supposed to move my family to next? fucking signal i swear i should've seen this coming from lightyears away

@admicos I'd like to think we may see a reasonable answer to all this bullshit, but I don't know.

This just undermines all the effort we have been doing for so long. I will I keep a straight face telling someone they can use Signal and then when they check it out it's full of cryptoshit? They will think I'm insane or trying to scam them.

@vascorsd God am I happy, jolly, extatic that I stopped using Signal when they pulled off the PIN thing. Back then nobody I knew used it so it was just a nicer SMS app to me. It was one of those moments that, if you're not looking elsewhere, tells you who you're dealing with. Sadly discussions on it became flamewarlike and people ended up looking elsewhere.

We're in _dire_ need of an open instant messaging protocol to be forced onto internet by legislation.

@vascorsd Also this from the reddit thread pretty sad if true:

? According to coinmarketcap, MobileCoin's "Fully Diluted Market Cap is $15,638,578,369.65". **Moxie is an advisor to MobileCoin**. If we take a conservative assumption of a 1% advisor grant [...], then that would put the amount Moxie received for integrating MobileCoin at $150 million today (or tens of millions a few weeks ago).

(emphasis mine)

@cadadr Yep, after reading a little on reddit It seems Moxie is directly involved in the moneytization part using a crypto, which is really a weird conflict of interests when promoting a random new shitcoin in a central privacy related chat application.

About the PIN I don't mind it much, since it enables easier backups for common folks and prepares for alternative user alias. Also it's possible to turn off completly in the settings.

@vascorsd
> Also it's possible to turn off completly in the settings.

Hmm, that's new I think, IIRC back when this was introduced it was not possible to disable it. If that's the case it's good that they listened to the community.

@cadadr Yeah it was annoying and people were very against it, but not sure when they added the options. I went and checked, there's 2 relevant options, one where you just disable the popup that keeps asking the pin but the feature is enabled, and another where you disable the pin feature completely.

@maltimore I'm sorry. I got a little infuriated, disappointed and frustrated too.

Had to share the feeling :blobcat:

@vascorsd signal is centralized who cares if they're attracting the brave boomers

@georgia Most of the world is on centralized services, so if we manage to put people on a centralized service that actually is good for them and they don't have to care about it, overall is a positive net win.

Let's not make the mistake of wanting things to be 100% perfect and not achieve something that is 80% good.

Moving normal people to truly federated or distributed system without solving so many problems in between will still take many many years.

@vascorsd

I wonder which problems you are thinking about. Mind to elaborate?

Also, federated services like #Matrix are 80% good, with a good client like #Element is these days.

@georgia

@Faket the first as in, the first in top of the app stores or are we still on first of April? 😅

I think no, for both, but even if Signal is not the top app, so many millions of people have changed worldwide that it finally gained social awareness as a good alternative.

Privacy advocates have been fighting the good fight for so many years that finally seeing so many people using it feels good.

@vascorsd
1st of avril ;)
About privacy we are on the good path, thanks to Facebook and WhatsApp, but I'm a bit chocked by this news from Signal.

@jack I have it installed, but the use case is very different, I don't see it ever be big or mainstream.

I could see it being useful for example in a conference with many people together or in manifestations for people in close physical range where they can all talk with bluetooth etc.

One can't just simply add someone based on an alias / username.

Besides it is mainly peer to peer I think, so very heavy on traffic and battery.

We already had Tox years ago and never truly took off.

@jack But I truly like Briar, since the UI is simple and consistent at least and appears to work for what it claims to work. So well achieve overall. Really want to see where it goes.

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