@kragen@nerdculture.de Can you elaborate on how nanopass helps manage complexity? I've tried to read the papers, but I think I'm not yet enlightened.

@vertigo @haitch

@akkartik @kragen@nerdculture.de @haitch Think Unix pipelines.

Each pass is like a Unix filter -- it takes input, processes it in some *very* well defined way, and produces output. Each pass communicates with other passes via in-memory buffers, so no mass storage is required.

Regarding mass storage requirements, though, you can have nanopass compilers on a Commodore 64 if you wanted, by reducing the size of the compilation unit. BSPL works on individual colon definitions, for example, and uses mere KB.

@vertigo I see, yes I divide up work into functions that operate on the entire compilation unit.

Mu has 27 'transforms': akkartik.github.io/mu/html/012

SubX has 7 so far, but I added an additional notion of 'checks': akkartik.github.io/mu/html/sub

But the original nanopass paper describes designing a separate formally-defined language for each pass: cs.indiana.edu/~dyb/pubs/comme

(Unix pipelines also introduce concurrency and flow-control; I perhaps know too much for that analogy to be helpful.)

@kragen@nerdculture.de @haitch

@akkartik I'm not sold on anything thsat recommends many different languages to basically treat successive transforms of an essentially equivalent graph. Proofs for every lttle lang seem way overkill to me, when you can reuse good old graph theory on any graph.
Then, that may be just me and my hammer seeing it all as nails. And linguistically oriented overengineering in a mathematical shape may also be somebody else's hammer. Different approaches, but I know which I'd follow.

@vertigo @kragen@nerdculture.de

@haitch @akkartik @kragen@nerdculture.de I'm not sure where your contention lies. Can you explain how your idea and the idea of multiple nanopasses conflict?

NOTE: I'm *not* talking about the Nanopass Framework, which is a framework intended to automate the boilerplate of writing nanopasses, saving time in an educational context. I'm talking about the abstractions they are specific instances of.

@haitch @akkartik @kragen@nerdculture.de My apologies if I wasn't clear in this regard earlier.

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@vertigo I get you and I'm not oppossed to the idea of multi-pass compilers. I'm highly biased against the proposed formal proofs expressed as various different languages. I just happen to see multiple passes as a sequence of graph transfor,s, for which you may have a formal description in one regu;ar off-the-shelf language borrowing from graph theory. Data structures of internal memory representation are just optimisations that run on machines.

@akkartik @kragen@nerdculture.de

@haitch @akkartik @kragen@nerdculture.de "against the proposed formal proofs expressed as various different languages" -- Ahh, gotcha. That's what I was confused over. Thanks for clarifying.

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