@yogthos that's just bad code.

I used to be super annoyed not having lisp-like macros, but the obsession with s-expressions escapes me.

... It's gunna be a tree regardless how you write it. Might aswel use whitespace(like Python) and infix notation, it's perfectly understandable and looks better...

I also do not understand people wanting static typing by the way. It only stops really shallow bugs as far as i can see.

@jasper there are a number of advantage to using s-expressions. A couple of big ones for me are:

Having a single syntax for logic and data. You can take any piece of code and transform it using the same language you're already using. I wrote about the benefits of that in detail here

yogthos.net/posts/2017-10-03-M

S-expressions also allow much better editors where you're manipulating blocks of logic as opposed to lines of code as seen here

danmidwood.com/content/2014/11

@yogthos @jasper Big fan of Forth here, but I definitely want to get more involved with Lisp eventually as well. Common Lisp in particular, mainly because it is the common benchmark against which other languages are referenced against. I did play around with Shen Lisp for some time, and really enjoyed the experience.

@vertigo @jasper @yogthos Scheme is a lot leaner and easier to learn though.

Also forth and scheme are really about minimalism (although there's a lot of code that shows the opposite), and I have found stimulating effects in using both...

But then I also think that of Smalltalk....

@ckeen @jasper @yogthos I love Smalltalk too, as a language. I just can't wrap my head around the library it's expected to be used with. ;)

@vertigo @yogthos @jasper

Yes, it's huge. But there's stuff like Cuis which has just 500 classes and has minimalism as a design goal. Or 'A little smalltalk' a non graphical implementation of smalltalk based on the blue book...
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@ckeen @yogthos @jasper Where can I learn more about these? The last time I looked up "Little Smalltalk," I got a bunch of references to code which is incomplete or otherwise doesn't work for some reason.

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@ckeen @vertigo @jasper @yogthos I've not used these in a while. v3 or v4 are the best bets. v5 added a lot, but was pretty buggy IIRC.

@ckeen Doing ok. I spent a while being offline, starting to get back into things now.

@crc @ckeen @jasper @yogthos I've honestly not even gotten v3 or v4 to work on my systems in the past.

@vertigo @ckeen @jasper @yogthos What OS and CPU? It has historically had issues on 64-bit systems, my repo has had some contributed patches in the last couple of years that should help on v2, v4, and v5. (mostly updates to v4)

@crc @ckeen @jasper @yogthos This was some years ago, so it might work now. I haven't checked in a while.

@vertigo @ckeen @jasper @yogthos It won't hurt to check and verify that it does. I should also try it on my BSD systems...

@vertigo @ckeen @yogthos @jasper

github.com/crcx/littlesmalltal has a bunch of them. Itโ€™s maintained by @crc, I believe.

(I also have a partial cleanup of it on Github; lemme know if you want a link.)

FWIW, in the 25-ish years Iโ€™ve dabbled with it, Iโ€™ve never managed to get it to do anything useful or interesting. If you want to learn about Smalltalk, Squeak is a much better introduction.

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