"Privacy isn't about hiding bad things, but about protecting what defines us as human beings, who we are. Our day-to-day behavior, our personality, our fears, our relationships, and our vulnerabilities."

-- The Tor Project


@fribbledom tor doesn’t protect by itself. Get a paid vpn then get on tor. If possible use a separate machine with some old Mac card.

@vikramjeetsinghparmar May I ask why? As far as I know Tor works exactly the same as a VPN, just with more than one server.

Also: "use a separate machine with some old Mac card" Yeah, for Snowden-level stuff, you probably need to use a separate machine. Tracking these days is getting rather out of hand...


@vikramjeetsinghparmar @fribbledom Isn't a VPN like a deliberate man-in-the-middle attack initiated by themselves? Thus, reducing privacy (at least potentially)?

To put it another way: how do you choose a good VPN provider?


MAC addresses can be generated, OpenBSD has this built in for example.
(I think that's what you mean by 'Mac card').

You -> VPN -> Tor = that's linkable to you -> go to jail

Tor -> VPN -> Internet = Better, as it adds a layer. But you need to pay for the VPN somehow -> Back to square 1.

There are a couple of talks on this, but this one is a good one:




Because tor is useless if all your data is intercepted already on the vpn hop :)

@ckeen @fribbledom @vikramjeetsinghparmar

@d599f84e @ckeen @fribbledom @vikramjeetsinghparmar
that's... not how it works?
The VPN sees the same stuff your ISP sees, i.e. an encrypted tunnel going to a Tor entry node, AFAIK.

@Wolf480pl @d599f84e @fribbledom @vikramjeetsinghparmar

The reason I made this point is:

VPN offers privacy
Tor offers anonymity

If you connect through a VPN -> Tor to your target, you could have skipped the VPN Part. The situation would be as if you use Tor over your ISP. In case someone is able to tag traffice through tor back to your place you are bust.

If you use Tor to connect to a VPN, you add another layer between you and your adversary. The Traffic might be traced back to your VPN entry point but then one still has to correlate data back to you over Tor.

See the talk I have linked to previously (slides starting at page 95)


If you use a VPN, then your ISP only sees that you are connecting to a vpn-provider.

But, why would you need a vpn, when your ISP would see anyways that you connect to tor?
Who are you trying to hide from that you are using tor?

@ckeen @fribbledom @vikramjeetsinghparmar

@vikramjeetsinghparmar @fribbledom Tor + decent opsec provides sufficient protection against most non-targeted invasions of privacy. If your ISP/opponent will target you for merely using Tor, that's when a VPN can help. But of course it only moves the trust from your ISP to your VPN provider, and won't stop an ISP who will target you for using a VPN

There's not universal advice here. Know your threat model.

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