4 years in operation, still doing like 5-10 coinjoins a day just from my bot (I think there are about 60 active, typically), hundreds of millions (not exaggeration) of dollars worth of btc made more fungible, more than one academic paper analysing it ... but still everyone talks like Joinmarket either doesn't exist or is a dead project.


@waxwing Maybe it's just unfamiliarity?
I think Wasabi got a major publicity boost by nopara73 joining (?) Block Digest and Matt Odell's "Wasabi Wednesday" campaign.


Well, but notice I'm not complaining about why there aren't more people using it, I'm complaining about why every single public "expert" on Bitcoin talks like it doesn't exist.

How do you mean "talks like it doesn't exist"? I interpreted that like they don't talk about it, but if you mean sth else, that could/would change the discussion in a rather big way.

I also have an opinion on 'experts' in bitcoin, but it may be better to keep that to myself ;-P
Let's just say "free speech money" and the near total silence wrt Julian Assange rubbed me the wrong way


Re: Assange I'm less concerned about silence than people sloppily thinking "oh I don't like him". Unfortunately many people, even smart people, don't think critically when it comes to that stuff.

Re: Joinmarket, don't know how else to say it, I'm saying they either ignore its existence, or they dismiss it as some small project that never really worked. Is that any clearer?

E.g. a year ago (before Wasabi, AA did a podcast on coinjoin, and didn't *mention* Joinmarket, despite (1/2)


... it being *the only functioning Coinjoin software in use* and that having been the case for about 2 years!

And as I've already pointed out the volumes were non trivial.

@Sosthene Please do, but as I've just been saying, I'm not saying we should have more users, or guilt people into using it 😂 .. it's about how everyone just blanks it out from the discussion around fungibility tech in bitcoin.



By the way I've done 2 coinjoins during the period of this discussion :)

@waxwing I suspect in the next year to 2 users will be demanding it be on by default in their wallets and other bitcoin services. @Sosthene

@waxwing @Sosthene
I'm in the same boat as Sosthene, knowing about it, but not having tried it.
I think the problem is (mainly) two fold:
- most people just don't know it exists
- fungibility isn't getting the attention it deserves

I also suspect that it may be too complicated for most people to use in the first place. I think that various (fungibility) techniques should be used required and automated, so people use it without knowing it.

Do you have a link to the AA video?

@FreePietje @Sosthene


His analysis generally is poor, he has the classic "oh blockchain analysis can see through this" perspective which is what you tend to think if you really don't have much concrete knowledge.

To be fair on rewatch, he wasn't naming any particular "service" (JM is not a service), but I believe the only mental model he had in his head was blockchain.info's sharedcoin (and he knows darkwallet), but for sure he never talked about JM, ever.

@waxwing @Sosthene
His blockchain analysis remark surprised me as another time (later?) he described the fight as asymmetric (each extra hop is easy for users, exponentially costly for analytic cos, using Ricochet as an example correctly this time ;-P).

Not as useful as it could've been imo.
Thx for the link

@waxwing Haha no guilt, I've been willing to try it for some time now, but so much to do, so little time

Did you listen to Block Digest #176?

youtu.be/OwLwSUsKtGQ (episode video) or castbox.fm/ch/1192324 (episode audio) or rss.castbox.fm/everest/8d00c4f (rss feed whole show)

Around the 40 min mark, Joinmarket is mentioned, clarifying that it is not a money service business according to FinCEN


Oh sure, I know those guys.

Even been on their show :)

It cant be a MSB because it's not a B or even an S :)

Yep, the Special Edition :)

Just came back from a walk and I was listening to that episode and thought it was a nice coincidence with our earlier conversation.

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