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Arch Linux enables an obscure build configuration option on a GNOME module I've adopted and I wanted to understand why. So I grabbed an ISO and discovered the "installation" process involves being dumped at a root shell and having to bootstrap your system by hand. This is ridiculous! Are Arch users the new Gentoo users?

@wjt « but it's so lightweight and I know exactly what's installed and there's nothing superfluous!!!! »

And then it's the Fedora guy in the office who fixes their problems because none of them knows how to build an OS, and that's pretty much what "installing Arch" involves. 🙄

@wjt Which one? I may either remember or know whom to ask.

@barthalion gnome-initial-setup is built with -Dregion_page=true. That page is (AFAIK) nonfunctional even when enabled and I want to remove it!

@barthalion my guess is that it was enabled because it was there, even though actually the option (default off) was replacing a previous situation where the code was always compiled but never used.

@wjt It's not part of gnome package group so fortunately never was installed by default. I will disable that flag.

@barthalion interesting that it's not part of the gnome metapackage though

@wjt I was going to suggest Antergos as a way to get an installer to basically bootstrap an Arch installation. But they discontinued the project earlier this year. (Old installations would still upgrade to full Arch though.)

Meanwhile, it looks like Manjaro is basically the new Arch-based + installer distro to go for. manjaro.org/download/

It has unstable / testing stages, so it's not 100% rolling Arch however: manjaro.org/features/fresh-and

...but it should be close enough, maybe?

@garrett Huh, so do most people use Arch derivatives?

@wjt I'm not sure if most people use Arch derivatives, but I would imagine a bunch of people do. Arch is more than a bit raw (as you've discovered).

While I've always used a major distro on my main machines, I've had secondary machines running Arch before, but one was via Antergos (many years ago) and the other was an ARM board, which is (oddly) _easier_ to install, as it's image-based.

@wjt There have been a bunch of 3rd party installers for Arch of the years, like Architect Linux, Arch Anywhere, Anarchy, & so on… but they all seem to go away after a while.

What's quite weird is that Arch *used to* have a text-based installer, but the maintainer left Arch, so they removed it and require people to install from the command line:

wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/F

So, yeah, Arch is kind of the new Gentoo. (Except Gentoo still somehow gets into even more details during "installation".)

@wjt The fact that a lot of people (including GNOME developers) still use it, because it doesn't fuck with the upstream experience shows how badly we need GNOME OS ;)

@tbernard @wjt It doesn't fuck with it cause there isn't a downstream, default, experience. Which ends up being worse having to bootstrap your own system cause now nobody has the same configuration and the bug reports are way harder to take action upon 😢

@tbernard @wjt

> because it doesn't fuck with the upstream experience

> It's not part of gnome package group

Yeah, optionally installing g-i-s by hand is indeed the upstream experience ;)

@tbernard @wjt one of the Arch ideas is that you put together your system yourself so it's what you want. If you're already experienced partitioning on the CLI it's not that big of a hurdle to install.

@PlutoisAPlanet @tbernard @wjt it still is. I've done it a million of times, and I absolutely hate it

@wjt it's not ridiculous to Arch users. Anyone who doesn't want to/can't manually install Arch isn't suitable to be an Arch user, unless someone else is managing system for them. It is a DIY distro, by design. If you just want an Arch based system for investigating Arch packages you might be able to use Manjaro or others, which do have a gui installer for your convenience.
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