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Julien Deswaef @xuv

This is a piece I wrote last month for the archive of the Libre Graphics Magazine. Let me know what you think. archive.libregraphicsmag.com/t

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@xuv I mentioned the same to few ppl couple of years ago. I think I used the terms of increasing modularity and hackability, for lack of a better term, to describe recent changes in the closed source and proprietary software space. Free and open source practices have served their role of avant-garde position that has nurtured new forms of creative industries/tools/workflows. Now it's time to move the front elsewhere. Appropriation and cultural diffusion never stops.

@320x200 @xuv Great to read you on this. I'd definitely would like to sync up with you on that new front you're talking about and hear your thoughts.

@xuv I think there is an urgent need to stop denying the political dimension of these practices and tools. The concepts of cooperation, commons and free culture (as a defined practice) also need serious scrutinising.

@320x200 I'm curious of why you think there is a denial of the political dimension. I feel there is a pluri-political approach to these tools, with probably antagonistic views, which in turn favors this political auto-censorship to preserve peace among the practitioners.

Now, the practice of free culture, that is definitely something worth scrutinizing. I was actually thinking of titling my next LGM talk like this: "You've released something under Creative Commons, now why are you so mad?" ;)

>political auto-censorship to preserve peace among the practitioners
That's precisely the problem. As a result dominant ideologies are comforted in their position, privileges are not challenged, same old groups benefit from the labour of others, culture stagnates.

Maybe I misread you, but for me this would be the consequence of above. Maybe relevant: bleu255.com/~aymeric/dump/lima

@320x200 @xuv Interesting. And nice slides. They speak for themselves. I would love to engage in longer discussions around these subjects, but I feel the Mastodon conversation is making this a little complicated. I've always been confused by free software + free culture association. I can see the filiation. But the legal framework is not satisfying. Maybe, as you say it, shut the door to any discussion. And the peer prod. license by Telekommunisten was a conversation starter, but no more.

@xuv @320x200
the debate is continuing, but more in the commons - coop sphere, in the french territory


see this thread :

with my proposal of 'limited lucrativity' close in the CC licence sheme for simplification based on the status of user

faircoin & duniter are also sortof creating such a "limited collaborative" sphere with other tools

it is a political problem and we don't have to wait for the rw libertarians to follow to implement it ;)

@Olm_e @xuv yes, these kind of initiative and attempts to steer away from the free market approach to free culture is what I am pointing at in my writing. It's good to see that this notion of limiting that was explored by the eGPL, the PPL, and the NOMIL, NOINT licensing ideas are still active. Funnily enough, these strategies were quite common in the proto-free culture era.

@320x200 @Olm_e I'm not familiar with the eGPL or NOINT license. Any link on these?

Noint I cannot find
eGpl is explained here
And ppl gives me something about pilots!
@320x200 @Olm_e

Interesting food for thought - thanks for the 500 character squeeeze

@wendy @xuv @Olm_e haha, yes, well done! NOINTL (and not NOINT, sorry!) is/was an idea from Felix von Leitner. BTW now that you found the secret stash of rants, you may be interested in "2.4 The Political Denial of Open Everything" in relation to your previous question :)

@wendy @320x200 @xuv @Olm_e if I increase the charlimit on the instance, will this thread live on?

@rra @wendy @xuv @Olm_e

I was wondering about that after @xuv 's comment. Isn't this going to create problems if we tweak the limit? Say, if some instances decide to drop/truncated/block posts that are longer than 500 chars in the future? Or block non-500 limited instances because they want to keep a tidy timeline?

@320x200 @wendy @xuv @Olm_e other activitypub clients like pleroma have a 5000chr limit so I don't think that's such an issue. I'm more worried about adding customizations in the code that might become a pain in the ass later on when updating..

@rra @wendy @xuv @Olm_e True, but the diff seems to be very minimal/trivial. Could be an easy one to document on the wiki? It's still an extra step though.

@Olm_e @rra @wendy @xuv
At the same time, I find interesting how the same decentralised social networking protocol can permit the posting and publishing of different content, leaving clients the task to provide different ways to browse and participate in different threads. The nice thing about the #fediverse is the way it can create serendipitous conversations, and provide a healthy mix between articulated exchanges and high quality shitposts.

@rra @wendy @320x200 @Olm_e Since y'all ranting and have driven this thread into the 500 Mastodon char limit, I'm thinking of muting you all ;)

@wendy @320x200 @xuv @rra @Olm_e :D You should ask your admins to add it to your instance custom emojis ;)

@xuv yeah 500 chars is still a bit tight. But anyway, it's not just the legal framework itself, it's the assumption of what is being produced within a specific techno-legal framework is serving the best interests of all the persons contributing to it. The political, economical, cultural scope of most free and open practices is so broad and ill-defined that it will always create misunderstandings at best, and exploitations at worse.


Aym, can you elaborate on this :
political auto-censorship to preserve peace among the practitioners
That's precisely the problem. As a result dominant ideologies are comforted in their position, privileges are not challenged, same old groups benefit from the labour of others, culture stagnates.

Thanks, interesting discussion..

@wendy @xuv I mean that cultural production (including software) does not exist in a vacuum. Pretending otherwise by treating any reflection on the nature of such production as noise, semantics, annoyance, etc, will prevent any discussion on the impact of such production, and how it affects society.

@320x200 (agree totaly and would include science too... ;) )
@xuv @wendy

@320x200 @xuv Thanks for writing and publishing that Julien. I would be curious to hear about other tools/projects that use this model, besides Sketch. Did you have any other specific examples in mind when writing this?

@manetta @320x200 The ones I was thinking of are Framer, Figma, Invision Studio, Gravit, Facebook Origami, etc.

@manetta @320x200 There is also Flinto, Proto.io, Abstractapp, Kactus.io,... ;)

@xuv Thanks! I'm going to tour around a bit in the #SketchAppWorld. 👀