Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable uBlock Origin. Meanwhile Firefox doesn't screw their users.
@yogthos Firefox screws their users in different ways.
@sungo I've been pretty happy with it myself for the past year. In what way do you find FF screwy?
@phessler @sungo I mean you can turn pocket off, and I'm somewhat sympathetic with them trying to find a revenue stream by partnering up with some commercial entity. I'm not a fan of it, but I don't think they've really stepped over the line so far.
They've also been fairly transparent and they do listen to the community at least when they overstep. With Google you get whatever Google decides to shove down your throat.
@yogthos @phessler Out of the box, my search data goes to google, yahoo, amazon, because of revenue deals they have. The "snippets" feature was used very recently to "test" sending ads to the new tabs page. Firefox sync will happily send mozilla my history. Out of the box my "interaction data" gets sent up. Out of the box, "recommended by pocket" is driven server-side by my data.
Out of the box, firefox is just as bad as anyone else. Mozilla "listens" when they get caught doing the same shit as everyone else and their use base panics. They fly under the radar because HN and Reddit aren't obsessed with posting about their every detail.
Two examples. If Mozilla listened to their user base, they wouldn't have implemented encrypted media extensions. Second, Firefox supports HTTP/2 aka SPDY aka that Google-designed protocol that makes dodging accountability super easy. When QUIC becomes HTTP/3, do you think Mozilla will put a fist in the air? Or do you think they'll implement it so they can stay relevant?
@yogthos The problem here is that we've allowed the web to become so fucking complicated that it's impossible to build a spec-compliant browser without an ever-present army of developers and a ton of cash. There is no way for FOSS developers to keep up now, to build something truly free. So we're stuck between evil and willing to sell us out to stay cash-flow-positive.
@yogthos Though to be fair, 'surf' from the suckless project is our stealth companion in all this. They're webkit based with pretty much nothing else, including an interface :) So, not a savior for the masses but an interesting eddy in the current.
While the web is complex, I don't think it's more complex than other large open source projects. Gnome or KDE are pretty complex for example.
I also think it's important to have more than one implementation of a web engine. If everything is based on webkit, then we're effectively stuck with what's good for Google.
Web standards aren't in constant flux either. I do agree that keeping up with Google is difficult, but I still think FF does a good job overall, and I don't think Mozilla is inherently bad at this point.
If Mozilla is smart they will use this opportunity to market themselves as the browser that respects user filtering choices, but unfortunately knowing Mozilla as of late they'll probably remove the same interface and say it's to stay competitive with Chrome
@usdcollector yeah this is a huge marketing opportunity for them, I really hope they do the right thing here
@xj9 also a valid approach :)
@xj9 is there a maintained copy and paste list we could put into our hosts file? Or do you do this manually?
@xj9 Awesome! Thanks 😎
@yogthos I ditched Chrome back in Nov of 2017. I actually like Firefox.
@mindnmotion yeah same I switched early last year I think and haven't looked back.
@mindnmotion @ricard_dev I find it's much better than Chrome on mobile. I like the fact that you can open a link in the background, the fact that it doesn't try to refresh pages it already loaded, and browsing tabs is a lot more natural. The fact that you can have add-ons like uBlock is just icing on the cake. :)
@yogthos prediction: everybody will still use Chrome.
@boony ad blocking could be the one thing that will make techies switch to firefox en masse. Personally, I can't even imagine browsing without an ad blocker nowadays, I'm sure many others feel the same way.
@yogthos I suppose an argument could be made for when the tech people leave, the normies will follow. Of course, depending on the marketing power of Google, we may end up with IE situation, where it takes many many years to make normies follow.
@boony I think there just needs to be enough of a user base to keep FF viable, 30% or so is still pretty good all things considered. It's much better than the days when IE had 90% dominance. :)
And if Google starts moving in a direction people don't like it'll just bolster FF marketshare further.
@yogthos Yeah, true. but with all the browsers being based on Chromium I think it's more likely a Chromium based alternative will take the lead, rather than Firefox, because of the sheer investment in that engine.
@boony the problem there is that you become constrained by Chromium. Since Google owns it, they ultimately decide how Chromium works and what features it has.
The ad blocking plugins are a good example. If Google disables the API, there's no way to make such plugins anymore. I think this is why it's so important to have an alternative implementations like Firefox.
If Chrome becomes the sole browsing engine Google will own the web.
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