@yogthos "This park was brought to you by Amazon" made me want to violently puke

@yogthos Bloody hell. That's not even. It's back to feudalism, presenting the King with gifts in the hope of receiving a favourable glance in the future.
Strap Bezos onto one of his rockets and give him a one-way test flight.

@priryo Back to feudalism, except there's actually no monarch, aristocracy, or church. The merchant guilds run everything.


@yogthos ah yeah, in case we didn't get the notion Bezos was pro-slavery that time he tried to get the police to force strikers back to work.

I won't say what I'd like to do to him on account of someone might take it as encouragement and I don't want to be an accessory to that kind of crime. Or in this case, merely an accessory.

@yogthos Hah, the free market! (Also, something like that exists in Belgium, too, and was meant to be a temporary measure to get the economy back on track ... until it stopped being temporary.)

OCR Output (chars: 2182) 

Image 1:
Example: Chicago has offered to let
Amazon pocket $1.32 billion in income
taxes paid by its own workers. This is truly
perverse. Called a personal income-tax
diversion, the workers must still pay the
full taxes, but instead of the state getting
the money to use for schools, roads or
whatever, Amazon would get to keep it all

“The result is that workers are, in effect,
paying taxes to their boss,” says a report on
the practice from Good Jobs First, a think
tank critical of many corporate subsidies.

Image 2:
= The Seattle Times Pp

Most of the HQ2 bids had more traditional
sweeteners. Such as Chula Vista,
California, which offered to give Amazon
85 acres of land for free (value: $100
million) and to excuse any property taxes
on HQ2 for 30 years ($300 million). New
Jersey remains the dollar king of the
subsidy sweepstakes, having offered
Amazon $7 billion to build in Newark.

But more of a bellwether to me are
proposals that effectively would put
Amazon inside the government.

Some are small. Boston I has offered to set
up an “Amazon ” of city
employees working on the company’s
behalf. These would include a workforce
coordinator, to help with Amazon’s
employment needs, as wellasa
community- relations official to smooth
over Amazon conflicts throughout Boston.

Image 3:
= The Seattle Times Pp

Fresno promises to funnel 85 percent of all
taxes and fees generated by Amazon intoa
special fund. That money would be
overseen by a board, half made up of
Amazon officers, half from the city. They’re
supposed to spend the money on housing,
roads and parks in and around Amazon.

The proposal shows a park with a sign:
“This park brought to you by Amazon,”
with the company’s smiling arrow
corporate logo.

Image 4:
= The Seattle Times Pp

Is it even legal to give a company direct
sway over civic spending like that?

When asked about it, Fresno’s economic-
development director threw the public
interest under the bus.

disappearing into
on would have a
»” he told the Los

Angeles Times. “

You poor fools out on the fringe of town.
All this time you’ve been paying your
taxes, thinking it was for the broader
public good. Suckers.

@mewmew Not sure I’d say this is much to do with ‘late stage capitalism’ so much as ‘government in action’. About five seconds after governments of all stripes figured out that taxes are a thing they figured out that they, or the forgiveness/manipulation thereof, can be used for all sorts of things to direct or encourage/discourage actions. The real question then becomes, why would these cities be willing to do this for Amazon? I somehow doubt it has anything to do with getting better Prime deliveries or such. The logical reason would be the cities in question figure they’ll get more value than the taxes would have directly provided in the long run. It’s like an investment, where the city isn’t necessarily even paying money up front, just forgiving income they otherwise would have gotten. Not saying all these offers and such are equally good or anything of the sort. Just that in the end, the city will benefit more from doing the deal than they would have had they not. At least, one presumes that’s the case or the people running the city are morons, which is hardly unheard of

@yogthos @mewmew I could go on about how other systems result in far worse. I could point out lots of things here. However, I also am reasonably sure that will just result in the usual round and round with little point of anything. Instead, I’ll just skip all that and say: Okay, socialist :shrugfelix:

@wolfie @yogthos @mewmew there's not a point to anything
your life, my life, it is all meaningless
but there is a meaning to something
we find meaning... in lulcows

@yogthos @mewmew If that’s what you came up with when you last checked, you might want to check again. Communism and it’s friends hundred odd million victims would like a word with you. Yeltsin didn’t have his faith in communism utterly destroyed on the battlefield or even by Wall St. All it took was a visit to an American grocery store. Is Capitalism the best system that ever will be? Probably not. Is it better than anything anyone has come up with so far? Yes. This is history’s verdict on the matter. Have a good day :blobsmile:

@yogthos @wolfie @mewmew
>Discovers flaw in the system

@yogthos @mewmew @wolfie
And what about communism?

I'm sure they are open to climate change discussions, I'm sure they won't censor you and I'm sure they'll care about it

Isn't communist China the number #1 polluter in the world? Isn't it also the one country that refused reduction goals unlike the rest of the west?

As for the 1% meme, listen, read about economy you're just making yourself look silly mate
It is widely known that the followers of the left are egregious ignorants, you're quoting a boomer meme as argument so...

>That's ironic because most of what China does is consumed in the west?

Bahahwha, what does that even mean you silly lolcow?

So it's not pollution because the resources are made into tangible products? Or because it is bought? What if it's something intangible, then it's pollution? Lmao :elfie:

@mewmew @wolfie
That's because you can't defend your convictions, but it's not just you, the left can't be defended with anything else other than violence that's why every time it reached government was through blood :AsukaShrug:

@mewmew @wolfie

@Elfie @mewmew @wolfie It's pollution outsourced from the West, which is only produced because they are paid to produce it by overseas companies. Even with that pollution outsourcing, the environmental impact per capita is higher in Western nations. Infinite growth is the ideology of cancer.

@it_wasnt_arson @Elfie @wolfie agreed. We're finally running up on the limit of the past 300 years of growth

@mewmew @wolfie @Elfie And to what end? Do smart teakettles and slightly thinner smartphones actually make people's lives better, when the cost of manufacturing is paid in blood?

@it_wasnt_arson @wolfie @Elfie yeah, that's the problem with a market economy: it doesn't care

A free market is a useful tool for certain applications but is not a good baseline ruleset for an economy.

@mewmew @it_wasnt_arson @Elfie Markets don’t care nor should they. They aren’t intelligent or sentient :laughing_cirno:

I joke, but also a bit serious. Markets don’t care, but consumers and buyers most certainly do. The market isn’t some thing that is apart from us. It isn’t some force on its own. It’s us. It reflects our values and our desires. To use the example given earlier for thinner phones and what not, those sell not because the market says they do but because we do. The success of electric cars, a long time coming I think, and other alternatives is not being dictated from on high by either government or some other force but because we, in the form of the market, want such and thus it is being made

@wolfie @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson people, in general, are selfish and short-sighted and the failure of the market to produce ethical, sustainable goods reflects that.

When coordinated, people can potentially work on longer-term, cooperative goals that benefit society as a whole.

@mewmew @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson I tend to think that while people can be selfish and all that, they tend to be more price conscious than anything else. Making sustainable products tend to cost more and people aren’t demanding it as much. You can’t really force them to though. Not unless one wants to advocate for a gun to the head of everyone who buys anything that isn’t approved, no?

@wolfie @mewmew @Elfie can you, gasp, imagine a world in which there are options other than "people try to extract maximum profit from your life every single day of your life" and "cops tell everyone what to do"

@it_wasnt_arson @mewmew @Elfie I would say that’s called “now”, but I imagine that you’d dispute that :laughing_cirno:

There isn't any economical, cultural or politic way counter act that

You're complaining just because you don't know better
@wolfie @mewmew

@Elfie Maybe you'd know about economic, cultural, and political ways to counter that if you actually tried to think about it or research things people have been talking about for the past 150 years or so

Oh, so you know a way to fix humanity, the environment, politics, culture, economy and everything ever?

Please do tell me :elfie:
@wolfie @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson that's exactly my point: people are selfish. You didn't present a counterargument

@mewmew @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson Hmmm.. fair enough. I think my point is that while people can be selfish, they also aren’t always automatically short sighted and won’t care at all. I think the problem is more than for most people in most situations, they simply don’t understand or believe there is a real problem.

Not sure if that makes sense or not though?

@mewmew @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson Possibly, but possibly not. If I’m correct, which is not entirely proven, it is less a fault of the system per se and more one of education and knowledge. In short, people do X because they don’t believe or aren’t aware that either alternatives exist or they are needed

@wolfie @mewmew @Elfie Or, maybe, people do know that things are wrong but are stuck in a situation where they need to work for the system or starve

@wolfie @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson I wouldn't say that, say, climate denial is due to education system failures so much as a total failure of the capitalist system (e.g. fake studies published by large corporation and an underfunded education system with a biased curriculum, again due to the influence of large and powerful corporations).

@mewmew @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson I might be able to buy that in 1980, but it’s a lot harder in 2019/2020 when one can look up whatever one wants. It’s also hard to accept when the phrase “climate denial” is a thing thus implying if not requiring that the vast overwhelming number of people agree that X is true.

That said, climate change isn’t a particularly amazing example for the previous point. It’s been politicized to such a great degree where we’re talking more about patriarchy (for example) than we are sustainable industry

Something that is entirely impossible in a communist or socialist regime

(If anyone is still talking about commies, sorry I'm being an asshole) :aoko:

@wolfie @it_wasnt_arson
So you have no idea but like to sound smart while saying complete bullshit

Figured you out so quick, was fun though :elfie:
@Elfie @it_wasnt_arson @wolfie I dunno, I don't feel like the claim "it's impossible to do things any better than we do them now" is very productive, or defensible.
I think it is, because it encompasses human history as a whole, through history you can observe every political and economical model as well as their ethics

When you have practical proof of an idea then there isn't much ground to remain in theory or ring around the Rosie

Or it works or it doesn't

@it_wasnt_arson @wolfie
@it_wasnt_arson give context or otherwise I can't make sense of your one liners

And capitalism isn't except of unfairness, my point is that you're being contrarian because you're a silly cunt :elfie:

@Elfie Capitalism kills millions of people and is driving the world toward mass extinction and possibly the destruction of human civilization entirely

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