@valerauko not gonna have wait too long at the rate the climate is collapsing

@yogthos "This park was brought to you by Amazon" made me want to violently puke

@yogthos Bloody hell. That's not even. It's back to feudalism, presenting the King with gifts in the hope of receiving a favourable glance in the future.
Strap Bezos onto one of his rockets and give him a one-way test flight.

@priryo Back to feudalism, except there's actually no monarch, aristocracy, or church. The merchant guilds run everything.


@yogthos ah yeah, in case we didn't get the notion Bezos was pro-slavery that time he tried to get the police to force strikers back to work.

I won't say what I'd like to do to him on account of someone might take it as encouragement and I don't want to be an accessory to that kind of crime. Or in this case, merely an accessory.

@yogthos Hah, the free market! (Also, something like that exists in Belgium, too, and was meant to be a temporary measure to get the economy back on track ... until it stopped being temporary.)

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@mewmew Not sure I’d say this is much to do with ‘late stage capitalism’ so much as ‘government in action’. About five seconds after governments of all stripes figured out that taxes are a thing they figured out that they, or the forgiveness/manipulation thereof, can be used for all sorts of things to direct or encourage/discourage actions. The real question then becomes, why would these cities be willing to do this for Amazon? I somehow doubt it has anything to do with getting better Prime deliveries or such. The logical reason would be the cities in question figure they’ll get more value than the taxes would have directly provided in the long run. It’s like an investment, where the city isn’t necessarily even paying money up front, just forgiving income they otherwise would have gotten. Not saying all these offers and such are equally good or anything of the sort. Just that in the end, the city will benefit more from doing the deal than they would have had they not. At least, one presumes that’s the case or the people running the city are morons, which is hardly unheard of

@wolfie @mewmew capitalism is the root cause of all that because it's the mechanism that accumulates the wealth at the top. This results in an oligarchy which is the 1%.

This oligarchy owns the politicians because they fund their campaigns, they give them bribes, they lobby, and they own the news media that promotes the politicians convenient to the oligarchy.

The reason politicians pass laws that favor the rich is because they're owned by the rich.

@yogthos @mewmew I could go on about how other systems result in far worse. I could point out lots of things here. However, I also am reasonably sure that will just result in the usual round and round with little point of anything. Instead, I’ll just skip all that and say: Okay, socialist :shrugfelix:

@wolfie @yogthos @mewmew there's not a point to anything
your life, my life, it is all meaningless
but there is a meaning to something
we find meaning... in lulcows

@wolfie @mewmew last I checked the worst atrocities consistently happen under capitalism. However, even if it was true that other systems have been worse, thinking that nothing better than capitalism is possible is the height of absurdity.

One must have profound lack of imagination to think that the system they were born into is the best possible. Back before capitalism the same argument was sagely made by lots of dimwits about feudalism.

@yogthos @mewmew If that’s what you came up with when you last checked, you might want to check again. Communism and it’s friends hundred odd million victims would like a word with you. Yeltsin didn’t have his faith in communism utterly destroyed on the battlefield or even by Wall St. All it took was a visit to an American grocery store. Is Capitalism the best system that ever will be? Probably not. Is it better than anything anyone has come up with so far? Yes. This is history’s verdict on the matter. Have a good day :blobsmile:

@wolfie @mewmew you have to be quite an ignoramus to think that capitalism killed less people than communism eand.co/if-communism-killed-mi

The verdict is that of an ignoramus who doesn't know the first thing about history. Have a good day.

@yogthos @wolfie @mewmew
>Discovers flaw in the system


@Elfie @mewmew @wolfie pretty big flaw when a system allows 1% of the population to hold over half the wealth and has resulted in the destruction of our ecosystem to the point where we might go extinct if you ask me

@yogthos @mewmew @wolfie
And what about communism?

I'm sure they are open to climate change discussions, I'm sure they won't censor you and I'm sure they'll care about it

Isn't communist China the number #1 polluter in the world? Isn't it also the one country that refused reduction goals unlike the rest of the west?

As for the 1% meme, listen, read about economy you're just making yourself look silly mate

@Elfie @mewmew @wolfie that's a really weird argument seeing how a lot of what China produces is consumed in the West

>As for the 1% meme, listen, read about economy you're just making yourself look silly mate


It is widely known that the followers of the left are egregious ignorants, you're quoting a boomer meme as argument so...

>That's ironic because most of what China does is consumed in the west?

Bahahwha, what does that even mean you silly lolcow?

So it's not pollution because the resources are made into tangible products? Or because it is bought? What if it's something intangible, then it's pollution? Lmao :elfie:

@mewmew @wolfie
That's because you can't defend your convictions, but it's not just you, the left can't be defended with anything else other than violence that's why every time it reached government was through blood :AsukaShrug:

@mewmew @wolfie

@Elfie @mewmew @wolfie It's pollution outsourced from the West, which is only produced because they are paid to produce it by overseas companies. Even with that pollution outsourcing, the environmental impact per capita is higher in Western nations. Infinite growth is the ideology of cancer.

@it_wasnt_arson @Elfie @wolfie agreed. We're finally running up on the limit of the past 300 years of growth

@mewmew @wolfie @Elfie And to what end? Do smart teakettles and slightly thinner smartphones actually make people's lives better, when the cost of manufacturing is paid in blood?

@it_wasnt_arson @wolfie @Elfie yeah, that's the problem with a market economy: it doesn't care

A free market is a useful tool for certain applications but is not a good baseline ruleset for an economy.

@mewmew @it_wasnt_arson @Elfie Markets don’t care nor should they. They aren’t intelligent or sentient :laughing_cirno:

I joke, but also a bit serious. Markets don’t care, but consumers and buyers most certainly do. The market isn’t some thing that is apart from us. It isn’t some force on its own. It’s us. It reflects our values and our desires. To use the example given earlier for thinner phones and what not, those sell not because the market says they do but because we do. The success of electric cars, a long time coming I think, and other alternatives is not being dictated from on high by either government or some other force but because we, in the form of the market, want such and thus it is being made

@wolfie @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson people, in general, are selfish and short-sighted and the failure of the market to produce ethical, sustainable goods reflects that.

When coordinated, people can potentially work on longer-term, cooperative goals that benefit society as a whole.

@mewmew @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson I tend to think that while people can be selfish and all that, they tend to be more price conscious than anything else. Making sustainable products tend to cost more and people aren’t demanding it as much. You can’t really force them to though. Not unless one wants to advocate for a gun to the head of everyone who buys anything that isn’t approved, no?

@wolfie @mewmew @Elfie can you, gasp, imagine a world in which there are options other than "people try to extract maximum profit from your life every single day of your life" and "cops tell everyone what to do"

@it_wasnt_arson @mewmew @Elfie I would say that’s called “now”, but I imagine that you’d dispute that :laughing_cirno:

There isn't any economical, cultural or politic way counter act that

You're complaining just because you don't know better
@wolfie @mewmew

@Elfie Maybe you'd know about economic, cultural, and political ways to counter that if you actually tried to think about it or research things people have been talking about for the past 150 years or so

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@wolfie @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson that's exactly my point: people are selfish. You didn't present a counterargument

@mewmew @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson Hmmm.. fair enough. I think my point is that while people can be selfish, they also aren’t always automatically short sighted and won’t care at all. I think the problem is more than for most people in most situations, they simply don’t understand or believe there is a real problem.

Not sure if that makes sense or not though?

@mewmew @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson Possibly, but possibly not. If I’m correct, which is not entirely proven, it is less a fault of the system per se and more one of education and knowledge. In short, people do X because they don’t believe or aren’t aware that either alternatives exist or they are needed

@wolfie @mewmew @Elfie Or, maybe, people do know that things are wrong but are stuck in a situation where they need to work for the system or starve

@wolfie @Elfie @it_wasnt_arson I wouldn't say that, say, climate denial is due to education system failures so much as a total failure of the capitalist system (e.g. fake studies published by large corporation and an underfunded education system with a biased curriculum, again due to the influence of large and powerful corporations).
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Something that is entirely impossible in a communist or socialist regime

(If anyone is still talking about commies, sorry I'm being an asshole) :aoko:

@wolfie @it_wasnt_arson
So you have no idea but like to sound smart while saying complete bullshit

Figured you out so quick, was fun though :elfie:
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