Capitalism is quietly erasing the idea of private property. All products are effectively becoming rentals, and the companies can revoke your right to use them whenever they feel like it. It's becoming increasingly difficult to actually own anything. Media is streamed, and devices are locked from the users.
It's hilarious how all the things people were afraid of happening under communism are actually happening under capitalism.
@yogthos as I understand it, all the problems with implementing socialism/communism exist in capitalism too because the problems aren't with the ideological or economic system, they're with us.
A troll I spoke to once said "what we need isn't a better system, it's better humans". I disagree, I expect an infallible system could be created, but it definitely hasn't been yet.
@yogthos I agree, and I generally have no problem with the alternatives to capitalism, but implementing them leaves the implementor open to the outbreaks of fascism that every nation that has tried has experienced.
It's gonna be nigh impossible to dethrone capitalism without a considerably higher social trust index, and considerably more trustworthy humans, but those are the things that capitalism needs to be functional let alone bearable.
@qy @yogthos the way I see it as a physicist, capitalism is the most dominant system right now only because it is the most stable right now given all current boundary conditions. Efforts to move away from capitalism will easily bounce back towards capitalism if those conditions remain the same. Capitalism thrives mostly because of growth from scarcity, which is unfortunately detrimental to both equality and trust, so I wouldn't say it's the correct starting point for changing the big picture.
Concentrated power is the biggest problem in that regard that most systems face -- including feudalism, capitalism, and communism.
So, a system that encourages constantly challenging and redistributing power would help minimize that effect.
@qy @yogthos This is why we're anarcho-communist. We've seen the successes like the communes in Catalonia, and we saw how concentrated power from an outside source tore them down. That's the biggest hurdle for this system's success atm: Ensuring the world wakes up at the same time to prevent the ruling class from using them to destroy each other.
"Communism will never work because people want to own stuff." - Frank Zappa
@yogthos Capitalism is authoritarian communism with extra steps.
@KitsuneAlicia Wow, I DID forget my history class.
Feudalism is that literally-slavery-by-a-different-name thing Russia did, right?
@octet33 Feudalism is lords and ladies, kings and queens. The "feud" part specifically involving war over political matters such as which king owns a given piece of land.
@KitsuneAlicia Ah, so dictatorship.
@octet33 Specifically the "rule by birthright" kind, yes.
@yogthos This has been screwing libraries for years with electronic resources: the whole point of a library is that it owns copies of content to make freely available to those who wouldn't have access any other way, but now the libraries are sucked into this rental market too so that when budgets are inevitably cut, they can't fall back on the content they already have because they've only been renting it themselves.
@yogthos That seems more like centralization of ownership rather than elimination. You rent your phone. The carrier, OEM, and Apple or Google co-own it.
@yogthos property exists... just not for the proles. Classic capital
@yogthos Capitalism/Neoliberalism will sink under its own weight. Sadly, it would take the rest of us with it cuz with big money comes big ego that has so far denied climate change, economic disasters, political catastrophes. And their "shock doctrine" approach to every disaster seems to be working quite well with the "educated" wage slaves so far.
@yogthos i wouldnt say private property is being erased from capitalism. its just that the individual isnt able to own it, its still privatized, just by that of a corporate elite or rich individuals. If private property were erased that would be a good thing, since that means itd transition into public ownership. No one should be able to own land afterall
This is indeed ironic. BUT, u still have a choice. You can buy a free phone, you can buy music and movies. Nobody is forced into these constraints.
@x2ero @yogthos Ahh yes the choice of have internet to properly function in society and use a completely locked down router and reports all devices and activities back to Verizon and has no way to turn that off, put it into bridge mode, or set custom DNS servers, or just dont have internet.
Such choices thats you supply side jesus
it doesn't matter if nobody is forced directly. All that matters is that the majority of people will more likely chose the worse option, which will also affect everyone who resists in a more detrimental than if only a minority made the bad choice. I don't really need to provide any examples here because this is the status quo.
@yogthos private property still exists, you mean personal property
@yogthos hilarious that vice gives you a “don’t sell my data” button that prompts you to opt out of selling your data to advertisers
@yogthos "It's hilarious how all the things people were afraid of happening under communism are actually happening under capitalism." this is either a marcuse or adorno quote.
@yogthos JD is a horrible company living off their historic brand name. Everything they ship now is locked down with DRM and service info is locked away.
There is a huge business opportunity for a company like CASE/IH/MF, etc to swoop in and start selling equipment with full service manuals and "open" standards like was common back in the day. JD has burned so many people a documented serviceable machine would make a killing.
I know it wont happen though.
SaaS is the corporate mindset today.
I don't think private property is being erased. It's being further concentrated in the hands of the elite. Capitalism can only work with government intervention to ensure an equitable distribution of wealth.
@yogthos This does not mean that "Capitalism is quietly erasing the idea of private property". That is ridiculous. Just because capital is rented out doesn't make it capital any less
@yogthos capital and property are not perceptive ideals but a system of material relationships between individuals. When someone owns something and utilizes that ownership to make profit, that's not a "he said she said situation" it's a matter of fact.
@yogthos and how exactly does this mean that capital is erasing the concept of private property. that's just obfuscatory nonsense
@yogthos The "Communism" you're describing is literally called "state capitalism" by those who invented it https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/apr/21.htm
@yogthos capital doesn't change form from perception though LOL what you're trying to say is capital is accumulating through channels of what were previously personal items but instead you're saying that because a consumer owns less things and the capitalist owns more, private property as a concept is not only idealistic since it's predicated on perception but it also no longer exists.
@yogthos You said precisely that right here: "Capitalism is quietly erasing the idea of private property."
@yogthos so if you say that property is an idea, which can be "erased" from one perspective or another, how is that not turning property into an idealistic concept
@yogthos you are saying property vanishes as a concept as soon as you don't own any, as if it's just a fleeting ideal with no physical permanence
@yogthos Just because someone else owns the property, does not mean the concept no longer exists. It means someone else owns the property
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