JS is like PHP in that they have both been given a bad reputation due to the praxis of their respectove developer communities. For some reasons this seems to be common for web development.

@yogthos i'm more the john in this story.
doing software engineering for a living for 20 years, did a lot of web development in the past, all kinds of embedded / system programming nowerdays.
feeling safe in c++, python, c#, linux, windows. understanding networks, graphics, general concepts...

@yogthos ... though trying to do ANYthing related to JS these days is just a great pain in the ... for me.

so much knowledge needed and it feels like all you learn is plain wrong in 2 years from now.

web is still the most important platform out there, but trying "quickly" do even simple stuff is such a great mess, it's just feeling toxic.

@yogthos @xor
I sort of like JS, the langauge that is and I agree with you assessment of the problems, it's just that the language itself is not superbad. Though to be honest I prefer Coffeescript or cljs. But if you're going to integrate cljs with say node and need to import js libraries, you're back where you started with the same problems but also have to deal with build systems together with cljs and all that.. ugh (shawdow-cljs is nice though if you ever have to). And if you're not going to integrate cljs with and js stuff, then why use cljs? And that's why I mostly end up using coffeescript if I have to do any JS related stuff.
@yogthos @xor

Yeah, cljs is preferable of JS, I guess it depends on how much you need to integrate with other persons bad JS code. That's mainly the problem in any JS environment though.
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