When asked about fears of automation in 1969, Arthur C. Clarke famously said that we shouldn't worry about automation: "the goal of the future is full unemployment, so we can play." I have never seen his answer quoted in full.

@yogthos only under capitalism would an increase in overall productivity strongly favor the rich

@yogthos i think that automation under capitalism still would be a net benefit but the power it would give capitalists would be impossible to counteract, also transhumanism and bodily augmentations would be hell if its for profit

@yogthos anti patent and free software movements are a good way to start

@yogthos eventually a lot of stuff like pharmaceuticals will be able to be produced without much human labour and it will be obvious how wrong it is that a company can own a process or an idea

@yogthos yeah, it shows that non pure capitalist systems can compete with capitalism and succseed

@yogthos the only problem is propaganda(marketing)

@yogthos something related to that where i think could bring massive change is federated
distribuition systems that are owned by producers, distribuitors and users,
maybe starting out like a small scale comerce that gives total profit to the producer and distributor, then democratically owned instance owned warehouses or physical sotres that are paid for the users/workers and eventually expanding to occupy most spaces of commerce (sorry if im unrealistic)

@yogthos imagine a federated amazon+, maybe not really in cites but maybe starting in smaller towns that not only connects farmers for examples to eaters but also connects people who offer certain services to those who need and giving 100% of the profit to the workers

@yogthos maybe working directly with unions and providing more services that way

@yogthos free software has a huge potential to help union organisation, mutual aid and create autonomous systems that do not give profit to a corporation

@joa @yogthos Those things exist and are called cooperatives. Denmark, for example, has one that is owned by around 1.8 million members.

@deathtoamerica @yogthos elon musks flamethrower arms(uses them to keep the city free of homeless people)

@yogthos if future socialism is to work we will have to do a lot of stuff different than the ussr
our society is not at all structured like the one in the tzarist russia
the same strategy will not work
additionally the words socialism and communism are terribly tainted and normal people will think you are talking about china or killing bagillion people

@yogthos i agree 100%
We must learn from the failures too and do what was successful mostly the centralisation is what i think should be avoided
i think now its much better to organise decentralized action on a more global scale

@yogthos yeah, big forms of organisation are good as long as they are sufficiently democratic and voluntary

@yogthos id be fine with a big govermental organisation if i can join it willingly and contribuite to it and have a say in how it works, additionally it would be better if there are multiple to choose from

@yogthos i thought that what if goverment was completely detached from land and was something you just sign up for services,participation in large scale organisation in exchange for some work and contribuition while you have the ability to choose which goverment you want to form a part of instead of being forced into one, security and basic stuff should still be guaranteed and should be based on agreements between different "goverments" idk just a thought

@yogthos yeah but i still believe mutual aid and decentralized organisations are more effective and i dont want to be stuck in a dictatorship of the proletariat forever

@yogthos desentralized organisation should still have a lot of power and be able to control that type of action

@yogthos but it doesnt have to happen that way, people are more educated than in the 20th century so maybe theres more chances idk im not making sense

@joa interesting idea! i feel like maybe there have been different forms of community in history that have had elements of what you're zalking about. not that that's a prerequisite for thinking along such lines - speculation licenses itself. but the territorial state as we know it with its bordering practices, techniques of population management, etc is of very recent invention. @yogthos

@yogthos Image description: A scanned excerpt, reading:
by a computer, reduced to an IBM card and filed away.
CLARKE: The goal of the future is full unemployment, so we can play. That's why we have to destroy the present politico-economic system.

@yogthos I like that quote. And Clarke is correct: the current system thrives on keeping a large amount of people poor and struggling. Those who are making money face a paradox: automation is cheaper than humans, but that means the humans have less money to buy stuff, and more time to throw fits.

@yogthos That's what I thought too. More time for tea parties because dresses and hats take time. Who has time in this digital age of too fast I need a sensor on my baby so that I don't leave the baby in the car while the pavement sizzles breakfast?

@yogthos Communism doesn't work, socialism too. And what system will be more efficient than capitalism?

@Revertron @yogthos if by "efficient" you're talking about money, then none. Money is a capitalist construct. If you're talking about resource use, then capitalism is the least efficient one.

@grilix @yogthos Okay, consider the situation:
One man works hard, another is not working at all.
Why the first one should feed the other?
What can motivate one human to waste his time and energy on others, unknown people?

@Revertron @yogthos the working class already works hard to feed the rich, most of which don't add any value to society. You're implying the rich would starve to death if it weren't for the money they're stealing, basically.

@Revertron @yogthos there are a lot of people who waste a lot of time and energy helping "unknown" people. You can start with the people who makes open source stuff (like this platform we're using,) or people who feeds hungry people all around the globe. Most of the people that don't work today, is because this system doesn't help them do whatever they want to do, but even if they don't want to work, it should be allowed, we have a lot of food, and we can produce even more with almost no effort.

@Revertron @grilix @yogthos If somebody is working while there is all the basic needs taking care of by the use of automation and distribution of production then they have chosen to work. Why would they feel distress at another that has decided to not spend their life in a job?

@Niquarl Everyone should "spend his life in a job" to be paid. If you need something from one person - you need to do something for someone.
It's like gaining "social points" for your activity and then spending them on some goods or services.

No one should work for free!

@grilix @yogthos

@ninesigns @yogthos @Revertron oh, thanks for the correction. I don't think it makes any difference, tho. Other systems wont focus on making money, so if that's your measure, no other system is more "efficient" than capitalism.

@grilix @yogthos @Revertron Until all human species are linked into hive mind with low latency, money is the best method of information transmission about what people need.
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