Festive Eugen is a user on mastodon.social. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse. If you don't, you can sign up here.
Festive Eugen @Gargron

If you wanna leave some kinda general feedback on 1.6, here is the Discourse thread: discourse.joinmastodon.org/t/m

Bug reports go on GitHub of course.

Usually there's about a week's time between first RC and final release.

· Web · 19 · 13

Since apparently nobody reads what I write, I'll reiterate some points about the protocol stuff, as I see wrong information being spread around.

ActivityPub is a new W3C standard for federated messaging with better privacy support and more future-proofness.

v1.6 of Mastodon implements ActivityPub for the first time, and "prefers" this protocol when it's available. However there is no change at all to how OStatus works in it.

v2.0 will pull the switch on private toot federation over OStatus.

There is a long-term plan of removing OStatus support, as Mastodon has never been intended to be multi-protocol. This plan is not connected to any specific version or date. It's just a general direction. As most of the fediverse plans to switch to/support ActivityPub (e.g. Hubzilla, GNU social), I believe nobody's gonna miss OStatus.

@Gargron I am going to miss #OStatus. I've been using it for almost 10 years!

@Gargron OStatus is indeed quite old fashioned and almost obsolete for nowdays standards.

@carlosceb @Gargron true, but there are still no functional activitypub implementations to speak of, at least with any real users. distbin.com/ may be the only public one that works at all. right now ostatus vs activitypub fit the classic "deprecated vs not yet available" dichotomy, at least for real world federation. whee.

@snarfed @carlosceb there is Kroeg by @puck, Hubzilla also already implemented it, and of course, us. Even just Mastodon alone is enough imo. We're big.

@Gargron @carlosceb @puck thanks for the nudges! i see in project.hubzilla.org/channel/a that hubzilla said they're working on it, but haven't shipped yet. regardless, agreed, they and you are definitely both big, so i'm happy you're both close!

@Gargron @puck @carlosceb @snarfed The better way is to cooperate with the other implementers. Integrate AP in Mastodon, but don't break compatibility unless the other major systems can understand that as well - this is the better way than just saying "I don't care about the rest of the world"

@heluecht @snarfed @puck @Gargron Yes, sometimes is better to keep the compatibility, sometimes is better to move foward because keeping the compatibility brings too many issues with performance or even security. Keeping Ostatus compatibility while moving to Activitypub is like keeping SSL 3.0 compatibility in the TLS era: pointless, because TLS is the successor of SSL. Also, i recommend the following conference for more info about failed descentralized standards: redecentralize.org/conf2015/20

@carlosceb @Gargron @puck @snarfed The essential question is: Do the Mastodon developers want to cooperate with developers other systems to keep and maintain the Fediverse or don't they care about it?

@Gargron Do you know of any developer who is currently working on AP for GNU Social?

I will have a look at the AP implementation at Mastodon and I'm curious about the way you want to solve the "incomplete thread"-problem that still can occur with AP, since they couldn't agree on doing the distribution like other networks are practicing it for years.

@heluecht There's a graphic spread by Mike from Hubzilla where GNU social and Pleroma has an "f" (plans to implement in the future) under the ActivityPub column. Lambda supposedly has "Pleroma talking ActivityPub internally already"

Also this is most unhelpful. ActivityPub design sessions are open for anybody; if you cared you would join and raise your concerns. Now you're just complaining from the sidelines. FWIW: Incomplete threads are not a problem because object URIs are resolveable.

@Gargron If you have a look at the acknowledgements of the specification, you will find my name on it. I participated in several discussions and possibly influenced some things as well - but of course not everything.

And you could also list Friendica with some "plans to implement in the future" - but currently no one is working on it here.

Concerning the threads: The problem is the comment distribution via the commenter and not the thread owner.

@heluecht AP supports comment distribution over thread owner. Mastodon v1.6.0rc1 does this.

@Gargron problem is that they were really unclear on how to do the whole signing.

@heluecht Well, we figured it out, and we did it.

@Gargron So you use "Linked Data Signatures"?

@Gargron And what are you doing with webfinger?

@heluecht webfinger returns a self-link with the AP mime type, to the actor URL (URI), that's all that webfinger needs to do

@Gargron The WG postponed the discussion about this: github.com/w3c/activitypub/iss - so I was unsure what to do with this. And in the whole spec, "webfinger" isn't mentioned.

Another thing that the WG postponed is a showstopper for Friendica: github.com/w3c/activitypub/iss - until this hadn't been defined, we cannot replace our protocol with theirs.

@Gargron

with respect

> wrong information being spread around

some of that's happening because there are people intentionally misunderstanding to cause problems

I think you're being pretty clear overall -- but some people are going to do this, for reasons I consider quite malicious but will not name here

:( <3

@Gargron Perhaps Patreon and Github are not the best places to write something. There should be something like an official blog for the project itself.

@gargron So, how long will it take until there's no OStatus support by Mastodon anymore? Read: how much time is left for GS et. al. to implement ActivityPub?

@vinzv There's a third post after the one you replied to

@gargron Ah, overread the "any specific version or date" part. Thx.
@vinzv Are who will implement ActivityPub into GS? @gargron
@vinzv Oder dann das Ende von "Föderation"? Tja, nicht nur in der Politik viele Fragezeichen :-/
@hikerus Ich hab deine Frage nicht verstanden.
@vinzv Wenn Mastodon OStatus aufgibt, dann gibt es ja keine Verbindung mehr mit Gnusocial - oder eben, ActivityPub wird auch in Gnusocial implementiert. Doch wer will und soll das machen? Wenn nicht, dann ist fertig mit Austausch - oder seh ich da was falsch?
@hikerus Ne, siehst du richtig. Ob und wie schnell ActivityPub in Gnusocial implementiert wird kann ich dir nicht sagen. Es muss halt einer der Entwickler machen.
@hikerus Kann ich auch nicht beurteilen. Ab für den Fall des Falles gibt es ja immer noch PostActiv und Pleroma, was beides deutlich aktiver entwickelt und gepflegt wird.
@vinzv Oh - ich weiss nicht, ob ich Energie habe, da umzusteigen... Jedenfalls im Moment sicher nicht.

@hikerus @vinzv endlich werden aber mal aktive Standards genutzt auf denen man Aufbauen kann. OStatus war ja schon länger auf dem sterbenden Ast zu betrachten. Und wie Eugen ja sagte es wird wohl noch eine ganze weile dauern bis OStatus komplett aus Mastodon verschwindet. Da sollte GNUSocial wohl genug Zeit bleiben den Schritt ebenfalls zu gehen, andersherum hast du also auch noch genug Zeit selbst dich für eines von beiden zu entscheiden. :)

@Gargron guessing by pull the switch you mean turn off private toot federation if it's using OStatus?

@Gargron (too lazy to log in on Discourse)

- Invalidated all remote accounts in my instance's database, monitoring which ones switch to ActivityPub. Not a lot so far.
- Follow ack seemed to be slow, and/or not refresh automatically
- I have not found any way to easily access pinned toots from the Web UI
- If pinned toot is the newest, it will still be displayed twice in the public profile