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@kissane @polotek the particulars of a given technology matter, but the best technologies are those that can be invisibly replaced and upgraded.

As someone who's worked on protocols, my biggest feeling of success comes when the thing grows beyond what my original imagination and/or capacity was, becomes something bigger, and no-one but some boffins notice.

Getting excited about technology can be great – getting religious about it? Can we not, please? 😅

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@kissane @polotek the particulars of a given technology matter, but the best technologies are those that can be invisibly replaced and upgraded.

As someone who's worked on protocols, my biggest feeling of success comes when the thing grows beyond what my original imagination and/or capacity was, becomes something bigger, and no-one but some boffins notice.

Getting excited about technology can be great – getting religious about it? Can we not, please? 😅

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@kissane there are cultural differences on the various networks, to be sure, but negotiating THAT is a conversation that actually goes somewhere.

Being someone who only uses PNG – and only communicates with people who also use PNG – because it's somehow a better technology? The sooner we can get past that particular phase of all of this, the better.

As @polotek started with, the reasons people choose one network over another are just so unrelated to technology it's not even funny.

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@kissane there are cultural differences on the various networks, to be sure, but negotiating THAT is a conversation that actually goes somewhere.

Being someone who only uses PNG – and only communicates with people who also use PNG – because it's somehow a better technology? The sooner we can get past that particular phase of all of this, the better.

As @polotek started with, the reasons people choose one network over another are just so unrelated to technology it's not even funny.

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@kissane 1000% this.

To take a small part of what you're saying and to be massively reductionist, as far as the technical stuff, goes:

RSS = Software-agnostic "what's happening with my website"
ActivityPub = Software-agnostic "what's happening with my website"
atproto = Software-agnostic "what's happening with my website"

It would be way healthier if we framed the distinctions more like those between JPEG, DNG, and PNG.

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@kissane 1000% this.

To take a small part of what you're saying and to be massively reductionist, as far as the technical stuff, goes:

RSS = Software-agnostic "what's happening with my website"
ActivityPub = Software-agnostic "what's happening with my website"
atproto = Software-agnostic "what's happening with my website"

It would be way healthier if we framed the distinctions more like those between JPEG, DNG, and PNG.

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@mtzc @Lana @housepanther not sure if I've parsed correctly, but if someone has $1,000,000,001.00, my theory is that they can give away $1 and they're back in the safe zone. The fact that they'd "earn" roughly $140,000 per day (and thus would need to spend or give away the same every day) is their problem to deal with.

Implementation could be as simple as a good old fashioned science fiction bounty. 😅

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@mtzc @Lana @housepanther not sure if I've parsed correctly, but if someone has $1,000,000,001.00, my theory is that they can give away $1 and they're back in the safe zone. The fact that they'd "earn" roughly $140,000 per day (and thus would need to spend or give away the same every day) is their problem to deal with.

Implementation could be as simple as a good old fashioned science fiction bounty. 😅

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@msbellows @Lana @housepanther @mtzc I don't live in the US 😅

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@msbellows @Lana @housepanther @mtzc I don't live in the US 😅

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@Lana @housepanther @mtzc maximum wealth. An individual can have $1 billion, otherwise they are executed. Don't want to be executed? Give away ($networth - $1 billion) dollars, you're free to do as you please. Want to have more than $1 billion? No problem, that's your choice, but you can't take it with you. 🤷‍♀️

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@Lana @housepanther @mtzc maximum wealth. An individual can have $1 billion, otherwise they are executed. Don't want to be executed? Give away ($networth - $1 billion) dollars, you're free to do as you please. Want to have more than $1 billion? No problem, that's your choice, but you can't take it with you. 🤷‍♀️

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@beebalm @dymaxion I'm sorry it feels hard!

You're great at it, though, and your work is very much appreciated – both by those of us who try but *can't*, and by folks who don't know any better but learn so much from you. 😊

As @leahbobet, in solidarity – appreciative, but also mutualistic. If you ever need help, I for one am always here and I'm sure so many others are, too.

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@beebalm @dymaxion I'm sorry it feels hard!

You're great at it, though, and your work is very much appreciated – both by those of us who try but *can't*, and by folks who don't know any better but learn so much from you. 😊

As @leahbobet, in solidarity – appreciative, but also mutualistic. If you ever need help, I for one am always here and I'm sure so many others are, too.

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@liaizon @jonny @mesh it's so great to see, I love having these conversations! There was a long time while virtually all the commentary out there were breathlessly following how Facebook Appification was going to be The One True Future and it was just depressing as hell. It's so inspiring to see how many folks are both really thoughtful but also, critically, building and experimenting with really amazing alternatives. (ps did you see Erin Kissane's XOXO talk? https://erinkissane.com/xoxo 😍)

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@liaizon @jonny @mesh it's so great to see, I love having these conversations! There was a long time while virtually all the commentary out there were breathlessly following how Facebook Appification was going to be The One True Future and it was just depressing as hell. It's so inspiring to see how many folks are both really thoughtful but also, critically, building and experimenting with really amazing alternatives. (ps did you see Erin Kissane's XOXO talk? https://erinkissane.com/xoxo 😍)

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@liaizon @jonny @mesh I sincerely hope the fediverse (* for a wide definition of fediverse, not AP-specific) grows a "text, voice, and video messaging" wing because it'd be amazing to be able to drop the *extremely politically and technologically bad for many reasons* phone number from our dependency chain.

Oh, how I wish @Mer__edith and Signal would invest in federation options for Signal, and identity linking that would work from e.g. Mastodon. 🙏😅

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@liaizon @jonny @mesh I sincerely hope the fediverse (* for a wide definition of fediverse, not AP-specific) grows a "text, voice, and video messaging" wing because it'd be amazing to be able to drop the *extremely politically and technologically bad for many reasons* phone number from our dependency chain.

Oh, how I wish @Mer__edith and Signal would invest in federation options for Signal, and identity linking that would work from e.g. Mastodon. 🙏😅

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@liaizon @jonny hopefully we can find good solutions! The challenges are very lightly technical, rather almost entirely social and political.

On the plus side, the conversation is happening! By contrast, very few people run alternative phone infrastructures that refuse to peer with monopolistic behemoths like T-Mobile or AT&T, or email servers that wholesale block gmail.com. 😅

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@liaizon @jonny hopefully we can find good solutions! The challenges are very lightly technical, rather almost entirely social and political.

On the plus side, the conversation is happening! By contrast, very few people run alternative phone infrastructures that refuse to peer with monopolistic behemoths like T-Mobile or AT&T, or email servers that wholesale block gmail.com. 😅

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@liaizon @jonny 💯 I'm definitely guilty of hand-waving on that. I'd love to see more nuanced forms of moderation because instance-level blocking is the nuclear option.

e.g. As much as I despise Facebook, I recognize what a challenge it is to overcome something like Threads. We need tools that give flexible control, or as you say we end up with a fragmented network (and, by default, one that's centralizing for most, silencing for a few, which is both good and bad).

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@liaizon @jonny 💯 I'm definitely guilty of hand-waving on that. I'd love to see more nuanced forms of moderation because instance-level blocking is the nuclear option.

e.g. As much as I despise Facebook, I recognize what a challenge it is to overcome something like Threads. We need tools that give flexible control, or as you say we end up with a fragmented network (and, by default, one that's centralizing for most, silencing for a few, which is both good and bad).

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@liaizon @jonny (to bring it back to bluesky, I think Jonny's reflections are really important – flexible identity and networks are certainly *possible* with atproto, but the question of whether the "social architecture" in practice tends towards surveillance, advertising, or de-facto centralization is an excellent one.)

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@liaizon @jonny (to bring it back to bluesky, I think Jonny's reflections are really important – flexible identity and networks are certainly *possible* with atproto, but the question of whether the "social architecture" in practice tends towards surveillance, advertising, or de-facto centralization is an excellent one.)

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@liaizon @jonny The key thing imho that any decentralized social network should provide is that you should be able to move to a new context without having to convince everyone you know to do the same. Creating a new online persona likely means the cast of folks you interact with is going to be different, and *that's a good thing*! I'd love to see us optimize for diversity, privacy, and discovery, rather than building catalogues of people-we-know.

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@liaizon @jonny The key thing imho that any decentralized social network should provide is that you should be able to move to a new context without having to convince everyone you know to do the same. Creating a new online persona likely means the cast of folks you interact with is going to be different, and *that's a good thing*! I'd love to see us optimize for diversity, privacy, and discovery, rather than building catalogues of people-we-know.

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@liaizon @jonny our "accounts", or more specifically individual "feeds" are situated – the data in them makes sense only in the context of the community (e.g. "followers") and wider conversation the social objects were posted in. We might want to back it up for archival purposes, and that's great and should be possible, but not an intrinsic property of decentralized networks. i.e., I have "takeout" backups of my twitter feeds and google data, but I don't need that data *here*; it's not relevant.

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@liaizon @jonny our "accounts", or more specifically individual "feeds" are situated – the data in them makes sense only in the context of the community (e.g. "followers") and wider conversation the social objects were posted in. We might want to back it up for archival purposes, and that's great and should be possible, but not an intrinsic property of decentralized networks. i.e., I have "takeout" backups of my twitter feeds and google data, but I don't need that data *here*; it's not relevant.

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@liaizon @jonny good thread! The atproto folks are great, and Jack's origin narrative is "a bit frustrating" to say the least, but one point I've always differed on, that I think Jonny calls out really well, is that _data_ portability doesn't matter, and has been a red herring for technologists in the space forever.

e.g., I have zero desire to back-port all my Flickr posts into my Pixelfed account. No more than I want the posters I had on my walls when I was 15 up on my walls today.

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@liaizon @jonny good thread! The atproto folks are great, and Jack's origin narrative is "a bit frustrating" to say the least, but one point I've always differed on, that I think Jonny calls out really well, is that _data_ portability doesn't matter, and has been a red herring for technologists in the space forever.

e.g., I have zero desire to back-port all my Flickr posts into my Pixelfed account. No more than I want the posters I had on my walls when I was 15 up on my walls today.

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@waldoj oh gosh! I just saw this whole thread. 😰 You under-sold the diet thing when we spoke! Really sorry you've had such a rough go of it. I hope you're feeling and seeing better soon! ❤️

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@waldoj oh gosh! I just saw this whole thread. 😰 You under-sold the diet thing when we spoke! Really sorry you've had such a rough go of it. I hope you're feeling and seeing better soon! ❤️

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@Greengordon @chris @akurjata agreed! I think in fairness some progress has been made, but there's a lot more work to do. It's obviously complicated, because the current situation stems from over a decade of neglect by the previous (essentially conservative) government, but I'll be the first to call for more work to be done.

(to wit, as far as I know, I'm the *only* person, journalist or not, who's filed FOI requests about the Health Connect registry – I passed them to journalists and 🦗)

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@Greengordon @chris @akurjata agreed! I think in fairness some progress has been made, but there's a lot more work to do. It's obviously complicated, because the current situation stems from over a decade of neglect by the previous (essentially conservative) government, but I'll be the first to call for more work to be done.

(to wit, as far as I know, I'm the *only* person, journalist or not, who's filed FOI requests about the Health Connect registry – I passed them to journalists and 🦗)

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@jack yup. It's hard to express this in a deep-knowledge kind of way, but where I live there are 300 year old trees that are obviously suffering and dying because they took root in the pre-industrial era.

We've terraformed Earth in the intervening period, and trees like these will never grow in this particular spot again. Even with a virtually unlimited well of fresh, clean water, I can't possibly provide the irrigation needed to bring the ecosystem they need back. Survival is hard.

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@jack yup. It's hard to express this in a deep-knowledge kind of way, but where I live there are 300 year old trees that are obviously suffering and dying because they took root in the pre-industrial era.

We've terraformed Earth in the intervening period, and trees like these will never grow in this particular spot again. Even with a virtually unlimited well of fresh, clean water, I can't possibly provide the irrigation needed to bring the ecosystem they need back. Survival is hard.