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@gvelez17 @Gargron I think mentions were delayed so just seeing this; yes! It's already possible to theme instances, but always good to have more. I do think we need a non-agpl, javascript-based implementation of ActivityPub because Rails and the licensing are real barriers to adoption by companies.

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@gvelez17 @Gargron I think mentions were delayed so just seeing this; yes! It's already possible to theme instances, but always good to have more. I do think we need a non-agpl, javascript-based implementation of ActivityPub because Rails and the licensing are real barriers to adoption by companies.

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@binarytango@mstdn.binarytango.com yup! Dan's a good friend and his post is informed by many years of us discussing these things.

I'm not still in the industry, but my goal there was to drive adoption of mastodon (I helped write the precursors to many of the protocols that it uses today), and since El*n is doing a great job of that, I'm looking forward to seeing all the things news orgs do with Mastodon and ActivityPub!

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@binarytango@mstdn.binarytango.com yup! Dan's a good friend and his post is informed by many years of us discussing these things.

I'm not still in the industry, but my goal there was to drive adoption of mastodon (I helped write the precursors to many of the protocols that it uses today), and since El*n is doing a great job of that, I'm looking forward to seeing all the things news orgs do with Mastodon and ActivityPub!

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@judell it's actually not too bad – the impetus for trying to get Condé to be an early adopter was really just to help drive adoption of Mastodon. Since that goal's been achieved, I'm happy anyways! 😅

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@judell it's actually not too bad – the impetus for trying to get Condé to be an early adopter was really just to help drive adoption of Mastodon. Since that goal's been achieved, I'm happy anyways! 😅

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@simon @benward I'm surprised there's no obvious "follow" input box that lets you put in an address to follow. URI handlers for native apps is probably the easiest overall way to do this, or (not foolproof) providing a referral link from a signed-in mastodon instance (would leak info about user's domain, but not who they are; maybe a problem for single-user domains). Could also be done behind the scenes with a postmessage handler.

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@simon @benward I'm surprised there's no obvious "follow" input box that lets you put in an address to follow. URI handlers for native apps is probably the easiest overall way to do this, or (not foolproof) providing a referral link from a signed-in mastodon instance (would leak info about user's domain, but not who they are; maybe a problem for single-user domains). Could also be done behind the scenes with a postmessage handler.

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@JoeGermuska any particular insights or thoughts you have would be very welcome! Happy to chat more at length soon (currently on the road, back reliably at a computer w/o the 13th) if that's helpful!

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@JoeGermuska any particular insights or thoughts you have would be very welcome! Happy to chat more at length soon (currently on the road, back reliably at a computer w/o the 13th) if that's helpful!

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@JoeGermuska I have complex feelings about this, so perhaps not the least biased person to ask - the did (decentralized identifier) landscape is "complicated" but has a bunch of activity, solid has some stuff but the consensus is that's basically stalled and irrelevant, various petnames schemes are good but aren't global identifiers by definition... I'm possibly foolishly working on a new acct-ish spec with some very clever folks that I think solves the zooko triangle.

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@JoeGermuska I have complex feelings about this, so perhaps not the least biased person to ask - the did (decentralized identifier) landscape is "complicated" but has a bunch of activity, solid has some stuff but the consensus is that's basically stalled and irrelevant, various petnames schemes are good but aren't global identifiers by definition... I'm possibly foolishly working on a new acct-ish spec with some very clever folks that I think solves the zooko triangle.

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@oblomov @aral this isn't a zero-sum game. The FLOSS community could stand to learn a lot by building interop bridges, not just with bluesky but other protocols.

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@oblomov @aral this isn't a zero-sum game. The FLOSS community could stand to learn a lot by building interop bridges, not just with bluesky but other protocols.

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@oblomov @aral go read Elinor Ostrom, understand how her work relates to what our project is here, and I think you'll end up at a similar place here. Unfortunately, there's no one "feature" to point to when speaking about the dynamic between diversity and cohesion of the commons.

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@oblomov @aral go read Elinor Ostrom, understand how her work relates to what our project is here, and I think you'll end up at a similar place here. Unfortunately, there's no one "feature" to point to when speaking about the dynamic between diversity and cohesion of the commons.

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@oblomov @aral I can't stress enough how the technology isn't the point. I was one of ~a dozen people who created the things that become ActivityPub, but I think it's a mistake to be extremely committed to the implementation versus the concept. The xkcd comic on standards points to this deep truth. There are a few things that are "natural monopolies" (names!) where consensus matters, but these are extremely rare.

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@oblomov @aral I can't stress enough how the technology isn't the point. I was one of ~a dozen people who created the things that become ActivityPub, but I think it's a mistake to be extremely committed to the implementation versus the concept. The xkcd comic on standards points to this deep truth. There are a few things that are "natural monopolies" (names!) where consensus matters, but these are extremely rare.

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@oblomov @aral there's a fair amount more to it, and the current spec is a v0.1 (ActivityPub has had ~14 years of evolution since we first specified webfinger and pubsubhubbub), BUT to answer your question:

Communities. Fundamentally, the technology doesn't matter. What do matter are the communities that get built with the technology.

Interop (even/especially via translation/bridges) is deeply important in that sense in order to avoid ending up with mutually unintelligible Babel.

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@oblomov @aral there's a fair amount more to it, and the current spec is a v0.1 (ActivityPub has had ~14 years of evolution since we first specified webfinger and pubsubhubbub), BUT to answer your question:

Communities. Fundamentally, the technology doesn't matter. What do matter are the communities that get built with the technology.

Interop (even/especially via translation/bridges) is deeply important in that sense in order to avoid ending up with mutually unintelligible Babel.

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@oblomov @aral fwiw, I'm not worried about nomadic identity or content migration - I'm more worried about how we structure communities online when we need to do so together rather than at the whim of billionaires and their armies of PMs.

I burned out a decade ago on all this, still waiting for the full promise of webfinger and ActivityPub to be explored (but a few smart folks and I came up with some meaningful improvements to webfinger last week, spec/code forthcoming) 😅

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@oblomov @aral fwiw, I'm not worried about nomadic identity or content migration - I'm more worried about how we structure communities online when we need to do so together rather than at the whim of billionaires and their armies of PMs.

I burned out a decade ago on all this, still waiting for the full promise of webfinger and ActivityPub to be explored (but a few smart folks and I came up with some meaningful improvements to webfinger last week, spec/code forthcoming) 😅

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@oblomov @aral (We can now debate vectorialism, but I'm not particularly worried about that in Bluesky's case - that's a cultural manifestation of data aggregation, to which Mastodon is also vulnerable)

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@oblomov @aral (We can now debate vectorialism, but I'm not particularly worried about that in Bluesky's case - that's a cultural manifestation of data aggregation, to which Mastodon is also vulnerable)

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@oblomov @aral I know the Bluesky team personally, and I assure that you it's not controlled by Jack. But you don't need to take my word for it; it's an open protocol, and client implementations are free and open.

Capitalism is dependent on capital, and if we remove capital from the equation, billionaires are irrelevant.

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@oblomov @aral I know the Bluesky team personally, and I assure that you it's not controlled by Jack. But you don't need to take my word for it; it's an open protocol, and client implementations are free and open.

Capitalism is dependent on capital, and if we remove capital from the equation, billionaires are irrelevant.

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@aral hello! Doing great, spending a lot of time thinking about how we structure computation differently to simplify our over-complex systems and give people agency again. Also living my best life in the forest. 😅 Hope you're doing awesome, too!

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@aral hello! Doing great, spending a lot of time thinking about how we structure computation differently to simplify our over-complex systems and give people agency again. Also living my best life in the forest. 😅 Hope you're doing awesome, too!

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@jbmagination2 oh, there are way more than that! 😅

This doesn't mean that we have to end up with fractured communities, though! We'll just need some code bridges between protocols.

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@jbmagination2 oh, there are way more than that! 😅

This doesn't mean that we have to end up with fractured communities, though! We'll just need some code bridges between protocols.

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@aral 😞 this isn't a helpful take. The goal is diversity. Mastodon isn't the end point. There hasn't been a lot of deep evolution in thinking about how to structure ActivityPub since at least ~2009, just specification detail.

Both SSB and Bluesky (*not* controlled in any way by any billionaire, btw) and others bring meaningful new thinking and features. The beautiful of federation and decentralization is that we can construct *meaningful* bridges and integrations between evolving systems.

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@aral 😞 this isn't a helpful take. The goal is diversity. Mastodon isn't the end point. There hasn't been a lot of deep evolution in thinking about how to structure ActivityPub since at least ~2009, just specification detail.

Both SSB and Bluesky (*not* controlled in any way by any billionaire, btw) and others bring meaningful new thinking and features. The beautiful of federation and decentralization is that we can construct *meaningful* bridges and integrations between evolving systems.

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@ianbetteridge no, but they've published a draft protocol and are hard at work on a client. I'm just trying to stay far enough ahead of the curve as to be mostly irrelevant. 😂

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@ianbetteridge no, but they've published a draft protocol and are hard at work on a client. I'm just trying to stay far enough ahead of the curve as to be mostly irrelevant. 😂

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Is anyone working on a Mastodon <-> Bluesky bridge yet (or, more generally, an ActivityPub <-> atproto bridge)?

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Is anyone working on a Mastodon <-> Bluesky bridge yet (or, more generally, an ActivityPub <-> atproto bridge)?

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@mdbraber @nlnetlabs yup; you're thinking of @Danhon's posts.

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@mdbraber @nlnetlabs yup; you're thinking of @Danhon's posts.