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Conspiracy theory: 'spaghetti carbonara' is so named for the Carbonari, the italian pseudo-rosicrucian secret society also known as 'coal-burners', who popularized various pasta dishes as an edible encoding of their philosophy

@enkiv2 yeah that argument has apparently been made for real by someone, aside of the 3 main hypotheses currently retained 'canonically'


Every time I make an elaborate shitpost it turns out I'm less original than I thought.

@enkiv2 the mention to Carbonai as the secret society is in the English wikipedia page (but not in the Italian one), it would have made a much more exciting origin story tbh en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonar

Yeah. Though, it's not like encoding philosophical, mystical, or religious ideas in food is terribly unusual.

The catholic mass's bread & wine is a normal invocation ritual (where you eat the symbolic godflesh in order to become the god).

Judaism seems to have a whole variety of symbolic meals with complicated symbolism that links to historical events. Hinduism has traditional foods for puja too, less linked to particular days.

@enkiv2 for sure, the Carbonari though were much more into politics than mysticism, as part of the scenario that led to the process of Italian unification, which makes this fake theory even more interesting

The wikipedia page makes it seem that way, yeah. I know about the Carbonari via Gary Lachman's book Occult Politics, and to a lesser extent, Robert Anton Wilson, who puts them in his Historical Illuminatus Trilogy (apparently fudging the chronology slightly) and in his encyclopedia of conspiracy theory, Everything is Under Control.

Both nationalist & republican movements tend to have a strong occult current & the carbonari leaned hard on rosicrucian aesthetics.

@enkiv2 fascinating, these references that you mention are all new to me,
lol in Italy we were taught about them as part of the basic political history, focusing on the political activism with little mentions to the occult side

@enkiv2 at least that I remember in my experience ;)

A lot of that angle is left out of histories aimed at general audiences (though historians are rarely unaware of them).

That said, this doesn't necessarily make people in these groups 'occultists'.

The way in which particular philosophical ideas accumulate signs, symbols, and rituals essentially comes off as 'occult' but it's a regular part of how ideas are transmitted, and there's a sliding scale based on how widespread the ideas become

Like, histories of the united states aimed at students don't typically make a big deal out of freemasonic influences. But, the people who started & ran that revolution were associated with freemasonry & with pseudo- or non-masonic secret societies (like Franklin's own Junto), & that was the channel through which a lot of social networking happened and a lot of revolutionary ideas flowed.

So, masonic symbolism in the design of Washington DC or on the great seal is not proof of an illuminati conspiracy (though the United States was basically doing what the bavarian illuminati wished they could do) but instead a natural expression, because the symbolism of freemasonry is how all these folks were already expressing these political and philosophical ideas to each other.

@enkiv2 @charlyblack so what you're saying is, Chocolate Bavarian cake was invented to occultly transmit the revolutionary, naughty secrets of the Bavarian Illuminati

Julian Bond 🍸 @jbond@mastodon.social

@natecull @enkiv2 @charlyblack Revolutionary Europe seen as a battle of minds between the followers of Chocolate Bavarian Cake against those who promoted Black Forest Gateau.

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@jbond @natecull @charlyblack
The Black Forest-ist, of course, are followers of Mater Suspiria.