@thor @Katharsisdrill Yeah, treating cycling as real transportation and making bike lanes and infrastructure is necessary if a city wants to encourage cycling. It's not just the lanes, it's parking and having public transportation like bus & trains that can carry cycles & allow hybrid commuting. It can work for a hilly city tho, like San Francisco.
(Totally in favor of cycling as primary urban transportation. Burning human fat instead of fossil fuels for commuter traffic seems like win win. ;)
@frankiesaxx @thor - It definitely is possible and has many benefits, but sadly it seems that in many countries there is a war between cyclists and car-owners. I have discussed it many times on the internet with furious US and English cyclists that feel harassed by car-drivers and is filled with hatred which is not a benefit in the traffic.
Hopefully the cities around the world becomes better at city-planning and try to learn from each other.
As for the hills: I see many old people cycling here in Copenhagen and I think that the electrical bike is a great way to help the elderly in cities like Oslo and San Francisco to get on the bike. The post-deliverers here in Copenhagen have big, heavy Christiania-bikes with electrical help-motors.
Part of it too is that drivers in places where cycling isn't the norm actually don't see cyclists because they aren't expecting them to be there. Cyclists will think the driver saw them b/c they looked *right at them* and didn't even slow down, but their presence doesn't register to the driver at all.
@frankiesaxx @thor - Yes that is exactly the argument i hear. it is very much a matter of traffic-culture. Local Copenhagen drivers are more aware of the cyclists than people from the countryside, and I have often heard that provincial drivers see the cyclists as confusing, threatening and even dangerous even though the opposite is true.
@Katharsisdrill @frankiesaxx @thor Outside of NL (which is 40 years ahead of UK with regard to road planning) I get the impression that DK, DE and UK are still to an extent dithering between "cycling as hobby/tourism" and "cycling as transport" when providing facilities, much depends on the region you are in (mine is quite good by UK standards, perhaps because it is on the North Sea coast very close to NL, DE and DK.)
I am not sure about the Dutch coutryside, but it is very much a thing between the depopulated countryside where you have to have a car to get your children to school and do the shopping because they closed all local institutions and shops, and then the citysprawl or city where the bike is the most efficient transportation. But of course it is also about national politics. Sweden is very different and not at all welcoming for bicycles, even theough for example Malmö is just on the other side of the water from Copenhagen.
(They are doing a lot of effort these last years though as only the Swedes can.)
@Katharsisdrill @vfrmedia @thor And that's so annoying. I would happily spend 2x-3x the time to take a train rather than fly, even if it cost the same. But SJ is terrible. We don't even have any high speed trains north of Sundsvall. And they're also super unreliable--you absolutely can't take SJ if you actually need to be somewhere within several hours of predicted arrival time.
@frankiesaxx @thor @Katharsisdrill UK trains are expensive (compared to NL/DE costs for same distance) and not all can take bikes but a lot of the off peak ones now can. However it depends on the train staff whether they let you on or not, also I ride an e-bike (normal 250W EU standard power) and its unclear whether its classed as a normal bike (allowed) or a moped (forbidden!); and the rules vary between train operating companies!
@vfrmedia @frankiesaxx @thor @Katharsisdrill If it's legally a bicycle, then it shouldn't be a problem. I've taken mine on Greater Anglia trains and nobody cares. The problem is places like Tottenham Hale where you land on the far platform, there's no lift and so you have to navigate escalators and stairs which is interesting with a heavy E-bike.
@jbond @frankiesaxx @Katharsisdrill just had a look on the Greater Anglia website out of curiosity and the warnings of serious delays in Ipswich reminded me instantly exactly why (in spite of being a Londoner) I very rarely travel to London (or TBH anywhere outside of cycling range) nowadays - I've no need to do so for paying work and its not something I consider as fun any more for a wider variety of reasons...(irrespective of whether I could take my e-bike along)