Does mainstream Permaculture philosophy include computers?
What's the maximum sustainable global population and civilisation following Permaculture principles.
Is it more or less than the minimum global population and civilisation that can support a chip foundry?
@jbond Though you asked about mainstream and i have no idea about that. Seems like some people are mainly interested in a much simpler life, something I've occasionally called the "poverty aesthetic". I can relate but IMO that way lies extinction because humanity will eventually be wiped out by a pandemic, asteroid, or climate change, anthropogenic or otherwise.
@seanl It's a stepping off point for discussion.
I don't think chip foundries and hence automation should be put at the pinnacle of the pyramid of human achievement. But there's still a huge base set of activity required to support all the activities that eventually result in the chip foundry.
Yes, Permaculture is prone to poverty tourism. But "Sustainable" is still necessary. In the long run (>100 years, <1m years), it's sustainability or nothing.
@jbond The problem with the traditional notion of sustainability is that it assumes no improvement in technology. In the 1880s people predicted that by 1980 we'd be neck-deep in horse shit. There are plenty of wasteful practices that could be eliminated by minor tweaks in policy, like higher extraction royalties and a carbon tax, that would give us more breathing room before we're reliant on further technological progress to save us.
@seanl Interesting stepping off point here.
Bright green environmentalism is an ideology based on the belief that the convergence of technological change and social innovation provides the most successful path to sustainable development.
This grew out of Bruce Sterling's Viridian Design Movement.