going to break my web server. if im lucky this will have the side effect of upgrading it, but i dont hold out much hope

when i upgrade linux, i see all these packages whizzing by, all this shit that i do NOT want on my system, and im DISGUSTED

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when i upgrade linux, it breaks linux. ive never not had updating or upgrading linux not break linux. its just how linux works - it breaks. im sorry if thats not your experience. maybe im not upgrading or updating it frequently enough? how often am i supposed to update it. am i supposed to endure my system breaking every week??? every day???? im sorry that doesnt sound very productive

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@jk I find Windows does that too. Windows Update just breaks my machine. Windows and Linux updates find different ways to break my machine. They are delightfully consistent in that regard. macOS updates never break my machine but do find ways to introduce lots of little slightly broken things.

@rodti i dont usually have windows break my machine but it now and again changes things that i spent ages customizing, which is almost more annoying? whereas linux upgrades keep all the tiny specific things the same but change the big ones!

@jk @rodti Xubuntu added some extra buttons to the login screen in 19.10 for extra functionality, but during our upgrade from 19.04, those buttons were never added. It was only after doing a fresh install of 19.10 a couple months later that we realized things should look different.

So yeah, both have issues with configuration updates, and neither seem capable of taking the "update the config if it matches the old default, but ask if it's different" approach.

@jk you need an lts system and should use system76 pop-os or ubuntu

@nemo i thought ubuntu was supposed to be evil? also i thought system76 was supposed to be bad too. maybe theyre just overpriced. i dunno i don't keep up with this stuff

@jk nope ubuntu is not evil they had one issue with the amazon button thats it nothing else maybe popularity contest to but thats it, you can use popos for free work even on an thinkpad x230 out of the box config needed.

@jk

It's not evil, it's just utter crap. #Debian already has a habit of randomly mangling the software they distribute. #Ubuntu compounds that.

Both, but especially the latter, have also a habit of not contributing back to upstream.

I stopped using Debian over a decade ago and had given up on packaging for it even earlier.

Mine's #OpenSUSE both on desktop and server, if you're curious.

@nemo

@0 @jk Thank you, you are unfortunately 100% correct but I would prefer CentOS over SUSE its basically Red Hat for free, but I can understand your reasons for SUSE and I honorably respect it :D 👍 👍 😎

@nemo

I've used, recommended and supported #CentOS systems as well, they're fine too. For me, quite aside from the benefit of already being intimately familiar with #OpenSUSE, I really dig #Yast2, especially the software management bits.

@jk

@0 @jk

Yep, its a matter of taste, suse and yast2 are very handy if you learn them but you can also learn centos, both systems are rock solid 👍 👍

@jk for sercer systems ubuntu server or debian

@nemo i use debian on my server. currently upgrading it from 8 to 9

@jk ok well debian works fine it debian, and you have to watch for the repos or you get a franken debian that can mess a system really badly

wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebia

@nemo im not a new user! ive been using debian for 11 years and i think it's always been broken somehow. whenever i fix it somehow it gets broken again. its usually because they keep changing some server config on their end and it won't upgrade and i have to fuck around with it like im doing now

@jk yeah the fruits of infinity gnu, unfortunately one needs a very strong community and a little bit of money like suse, centos, ubuntu, you could try centos its rock solid and also redhat binary compatible?

@jk I use Fedora at home and Ubuntu at work and Ubuntu breaks slightly after every update. With Fedora I crossed 4 or 5 major updates and it didn't shit itself still and I son?r understand why because your experience sounds more like mine throughout the years

@jk I run Arch Linux on my server and have a cron job that updates it on daily at midnight

@jk Apple had been upgrading my MacOS for nine years without any breakage

@jk what distro are you using?

I use Fedora and it just works™

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