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That is a minor but significant example. If you can't defend your words and have to explain everything from first principles every time, you can't get anywhere. You might not anyways, but at least this way there is a possibility of doing so.

/fin

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That is a minor but significant example. If you can't defend your words and have to explain everything from first principles every time, you can't get anywhere. You might not anyways, but at least this way there is a possibility of doing so.

/fin

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The guy in the thread that I referred to (which I won't bother to link to) attempted to call on expertise by saying he'd investigated the particular ancap tendency in question and it was anarchism.

There is no static defender of words. The only defense against things like ancaps pretending to be anarchists is to have a group of people speak up every time this happens and say no, that isn't true.

In places where there isn't a large enough group, people who do so are "trolls".

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The guy in the thread that I referred to (which I won't bother to link to) attempted to call on expertise by saying he'd investigated the particular ancap tendency in question and it was anarchism.

There is no static defender of words. The only defense against things like ancaps pretending to be anarchists is to have a group of people speak up every time this happens and say no, that isn't true.

In places where there isn't a large enough group, people who do so are "trolls".

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Some examples:

* Marxism. People in Marx's time and since remarked that he attempted to graft on an anarchist end to his socialism with "the withering away of the state", so that his politics had something attractive for everyone on the left.

* "Libertarianism" and "ancaps". The word "liberarian" was stolen from libertarian socialism, a form of anarchism, and ancaps call themselves anarchists -- both attempts by right-wingers to claim some kind of idea of freedom.

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Some examples:

* Marxism. People in Marx's time and since remarked that he attempted to graft on an anarchist end to his socialism with "the withering away of the state", so that his politics had something attractive for everyone on the left.

* "Libertarianism" and "ancaps". The word "liberarian" was stolen from libertarian socialism, a form of anarchism, and ancaps call themselves anarchists -- both attempts by right-wingers to claim some kind of idea of freedom.

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There are enough of us here so that we actually push back against attempts to strip mine anarchism's legacy. You would think that no one would want to do this, since anarchism is not exactly popular, but really attempts to do so have been long-lasting and serious since anarchism is coherent, has an end state that people like, and has not notably committed historical genocides.

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There are enough of us here so that we actually push back against attempts to strip mine anarchism's legacy. You would think that no one would want to do this, since anarchism is not exactly popular, but really attempts to do so have been long-lasting and serious since anarchism is coherent, has an end state that people like, and has not notably committed historical genocides.

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Sometimes I refer to Mastodon as having a "critical mass" of #anarchist s. What does this mean?

Here's an example. There was a guy recently who did a thread about how it was bad that Bluesky was invested in and involved with crypto people. OK, fine so far. Then he proceeded to call these "tescreal" people anarchists, when they were / are clearly ancaps.

Bluesky reaction: "interesting thread!"

Mastodon reaction: whole group of people telling him ancaps aren't anarchists

1/n

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Sometimes I refer to Mastodon as having a "critical mass" of #anarchist s. What does this mean?

Here's an example. There was a guy recently who did a thread about how it was bad that Bluesky was invested in and involved with crypto people. OK, fine so far. Then he proceeded to call these "tescreal" people anarchists, when they were / are clearly ancaps.

Bluesky reaction: "interesting thread!"

Mastodon reaction: whole group of people telling him ancaps aren't anarchists

1/n

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@beadsland

I would say that what makes a conversation "collective" is whether all of the notable centers of power in a society participate in it. It has always been a implicit definition about power rather than one about reach. The people without notable power either want to be included (but aren't really) or want a refuge from the collective conversation (but don't really get one).

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@beadsland

I would say that what makes a conversation "collective" is whether all of the notable centers of power in a society participate in it. It has always been a implicit definition about power rather than one about reach. The people without notable power either want to be included (but aren't really) or want a refuge from the collective conversation (but don't really get one).

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@beadsland

The near future is going to be conflicts over platforming. Right now it's easy: "We don't want Nazis on our social media", "we don't want the place to become a Nazi bar". This always assumed that the problem was the deplorables. What happens when the Nazis become the center of American power, the center of the collective conversation?

@inquiline @eilah_tan

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@beadsland

The near future is going to be conflicts over platforming. Right now it's easy: "We don't want Nazis on our social media", "we don't want the place to become a Nazi bar". This always assumed that the problem was the deplorables. What happens when the Nazis become the center of American power, the center of the collective conversation?

@inquiline @eilah_tan

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@beadsland @inquiline @eilah_tan

Social media were born during a period of unthinking liberalism that assumed it could encompass everything -- all people except a few "trolls", all political tendencies, the whole metaphorical public square -- because it could effectively dominate all non-liberal speech. To get back to "collective conversation" for a moment rather than whether people can see the same threads, it's like the photographer: wholeness means what they can see when they're up high.

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@beadsland @inquiline @eilah_tan

Social media were born during a period of unthinking liberalism that assumed it could encompass everything -- all people except a few "trolls", all political tendencies, the whole metaphorical public square -- because it could effectively dominate all non-liberal speech. To get back to "collective conversation" for a moment rather than whether people can see the same threads, it's like the photographer: wholeness means what they can see when they're up high.

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@inthehands

This doesn't really close the loop. Most of what people call a "nihilist desire for destruction" is caused by neoliberal policies that actually make life horrible for people and naturally lead to disaffection from the entire social order. When people widely feel that the status quo is not worth saving, it's because the status quo is bad, not because nihilism suddenly made a big comeback.

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@inthehands

This doesn't really close the loop. Most of what people call a "nihilist desire for destruction" is caused by neoliberal policies that actually make life horrible for people and naturally lead to disaffection from the entire social order. When people widely feel that the status quo is not worth saving, it's because the status quo is bad, not because nihilism suddenly made a big comeback.

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@inquiline

Yeah, I've read the asstodon paper, I didn't take it to mean that. I did think it was too bad that in yeserday's Christine Lemmer-Webber mega-thread (which everyone is going to referencing for a little while) she writes that she thinks it's not a big deal that different people on Mastodon see different responses to the same thread.

@eilah_tan

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@inquiline

Yeah, I've read the asstodon paper, I didn't take it to mean that. I did think it was too bad that in yeserday's Christine Lemmer-Webber mega-thread (which everyone is going to referencing for a little while) she writes that she thinks it's not a big deal that different people on Mastodon see different responses to the same thread.

@eilah_tan

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@eilah_tan @inquiline

As an elderly anarchist, I have to say that "collective conversation" sucks. Over the last decade I've steadily moved away from platforms where presenting an anarchist viewpoint is in itself considered to be trolling, i.e. basically all mainstream ones, and onto ones that have enough of an anarchist community so that the conversation is not collective. As the radical right gains power conflicts over platforming are going to take over all spaces.

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@eilah_tan @inquiline

As an elderly anarchist, I have to say that "collective conversation" sucks. Over the last decade I've steadily moved away from platforms where presenting an anarchist viewpoint is in itself considered to be trolling, i.e. basically all mainstream ones, and onto ones that have enough of an anarchist community so that the conversation is not collective. As the radical right gains power conflicts over platforming are going to take over all spaces.

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@jessamyn

As a data and research librarian I have the same "If you’re not paying for a service there is a good chance there is an “upsell” version of it" problem -- for example, ArcGIS wants to convince everyone that you need a GIS (preferably theirs) to do anything with geographical demographics, when really you can by treating small geographical areas as central points and not using a GIS at all.

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@jessamyn

As a data and research librarian I have the same "If you’re not paying for a service there is a good chance there is an “upsell” version of it" problem -- for example, ArcGIS wants to convince everyone that you need a GIS (preferably theirs) to do anything with geographical demographics, when really you can by treating small geographical areas as central points and not using a GIS at all.

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When you post something that is at all risky for social media -- a communique from Rojava, say -- your interests and your server's interests are in some ways opposed. You want the thing you posted to be seen, they don't want trouble. No matter what the ideals of the server, they all eventually default to not wanting trouble.

If you really want to go for it it may be worthwhile to run your own server.

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When you post something that is at all risky for social media -- a communique from Rojava, say -- your interests and your server's interests are in some ways opposed. You want the thing you posted to be seen, they don't want trouble. No matter what the ideals of the server, they all eventually default to not wanting trouble.

If you really want to go for it it may be worthwhile to run your own server.

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A lot of my Mastodon meta-commentary these days is on the virtues and hazards of small vs large servers. (I am firmly committed to the "large server so it won't go away and so you won't have to deal with mod drama" camp). One thing I haven't seen commented on as much is that small, radical servers will sometimes block radical media or posts that larger ones may let pass. This is because they are trying to not have the server blocked.

1/2

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A lot of my Mastodon meta-commentary these days is on the virtues and hazards of small vs large servers. (I am firmly committed to the "large server so it won't go away and so you won't have to deal with mod drama" camp). One thing I haven't seen commented on as much is that small, radical servers will sometimes block radical media or posts that larger ones may let pass. This is because they are trying to not have the server blocked.

1/2

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In particular, @cwebber writes "this seems like a vehicle for abusive actors" and it is. Anyone who uses Bluesky for a while eventually checks out Clearsky, which has a public display of everyone's blocks and lists. And guess what the person who you "nuclear blocked" so you'd never see them again has put you on a public list saying how bad you are associated with your Bluesky account.

https://social.coop/@cwebber/113528218 437747382

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In particular, @cwebber writes "this seems like a vehicle for abusive actors" and it is. Anyone who uses Bluesky for a while eventually checks out Clearsky, which has a public display of everyone's blocks and lists. And guess what the person who you "nuclear blocked" so you'd never see them again has put you on a public list saying how bad you are associated with your Bluesky account.

https://social.coop/@cwebber/113528218 437747382