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Eugen @Gargron

I've made a deliberate choice against a quoting feature because it inevitably adds toxicity to people's behaviours. You are tempted to quote when you should be replying, and so you speak at your audience instead of with the person you are talking to. It becomes performative. Even when doing it for "good" like ridiculing awful comments, you are giving awful comments more eyeballs that way. No quote toots. Thank's

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@Gargron that's actually the smartest thing ive ever read thats srsly amazing twitter could never :toot:

@Gargron We'll just have to copy and paste links the old fashioned way until it's fixed.

@Gargron Funny thing, I already can do the same in Mastodon: toot my message with a link to the original toot. I don't need to notify the author of the quoted toot, anyway.

It may be not as visually clean, but it works.

@espectalll @Gargron it even puts in a preview card, AFAIK (albeit not in timeline views)

@calvin @Gargron It does, as Mastodon adds the necessary Open Graph metadata.

@espectalll @Gargron that's fine but it shouldn't be default behavior

@espectalll Like, having it be included in the UI as a button, so that more people can do it without any thought or extra work.

@trwnh I personally think the worst part of quoting on Twitter is sending a notification to the author of the quoted tweet - it'd probably not be a bad thing for anyone you only end up addressing only your public.

@trwnh I personally think the worst part of quoting on Twitter is sending a notification to the author of the quoted tweet - it'd probably not be a bad thing for anyone if it's made in a way that makes you only talk to your followers.

@trwnh Yes, I know, toxic behavior, sure. I'm still unsure. Oh well.

@espectalll Well, it almost seems worse to NOT notify you when someone is talking about you -- the easiest answer is to make it non-obvious. Toots already show previews, so you can still talk about it to your followers, but that makes it a conscious decision rather than something you do absent-mindedly.

@Gargron (also, now that I notice: could you make it possible to drag an URL into the search box? That would be useful quoting or not)

@espectalll @Gargron The twitter style quoting has ended up creating quote reply threads that make it near impossible to get the context of what people were saying. I'd prefer the method of just quoting a link and having only direct replies.

@LinuxSocist @Gargron People can still do that regardless, but I can get why it could be an incentive to have an easy-to-use button. Still, if you don't send a notification when someone is quoted, that behavior should stay properly controlled.

Anyway, I propose those kinds of users get banned from their nodes for spam, and those nodes get banned if not doing anything (??????)

@espectalll @Gargron It was the notification of the quote that sparked the onionisation of twitter, before that quoting wasn't all that bad.

@MPurpureus On a toot, right-click on its time tag. Copy the link and paste it into a new toot.

@espectalll That's what I thought, but it seemed like the wrong way to do it

@MPurpureus Welp, there's no other "right way" if Gargron doesn't want to implement it.

@Gargron that's *actually* very clever. thank u!!

@Gargron very beautiful said everything

@Gargron now im reflecting and yes quoting can be really toxic bc it can lead to a wave of ridicularization of what people say or show on social media i use it a lot there (not in this way of couse lol) so it will be missed but i can fully understand why

@Gargron This is a good decision. More than just spreading bad ideas, quoting encourages snark instead of sincerity. It's so toxic on twitter in part, I believe, because of quote tweets.

@a_breakin_glass @Gargron Snark _is_ horrible and I'm glad that Mastodon isn't structured to encourage it. Social networks should encourage sincerity and a sense of earnest care.

@ashfurrow @gargron one person's method of relieving tension is another's horrible I guess.

and I doubt a social network can encourage sincerity, tbh, for a variety of reasons. the façade constructed by social media in-and-of-itself for one.

@a_breakin_glass You don't think that software can be designed to encourage types of behaviour eh? Or discourage it?

@ashfurrow I just don't think _social media_ can overcome that particular behavior

@a_breakin_glass that’s not what I said, let’s leave the goalposts where they are. Can software be designed to encourage or discourage behaviour in its users?

@Gargron quote rts was one of the most toxic things to happen to twitter. it was a real tipping point into nastiness!

@Gargron But here comes another problem: if someone need to let his/her audience know that toot, but they are speaking another language than the original toot, is it right to use comments? I think at this situation quotes are better because commenting using another language seems unrespectful.
For example, if I wrote a comment here in Chinese to explain your ideas to my audiences, (I think) it may make you or other people feel uncomfortable.

@KayMW Oh people sometimes do that, I'm okay with that.

But you don't need a quote-toot for that, you can just say in Chinese "Gargron said he rejected the idea of quote-toots" and eventually link to the original toot, but it doesn't warrant a quote-toot feature.
Yes, but it isn't, and that's where the buck stops for @Gargron, and I fully support this idea.

@gargron it’s bad form to take authorship over an open source project but I’ll allow it this time

@Gargron Thank you for the well considered decision.!

Quoting is the equivalent of talking about someone to others while the person is standing right there. It's condescending and juvenile.

@Gargron (Continue to the last comment) The question you said really exists, but there still is a need for quote. I haven't find a better solution yet. XD

@gargron people'll just screenshot anyway, and at least with quote toots someone KNOWS what's being said about them; with screenshots, it's all behind the back

@a_breakin_glass @gargron is exhibit typical poor judgment here: "it _might_ be abused" is a poor reason not to implement a feature that I've seen used mostly to good purpose. instead people are resorting to the "repost, then add a LB post in explanation or commentary" which breaks the link between the reposted content and the commentary.

@mona @a_breakin_glass it's not about whether it *can* be misused—everything can be misused. It's about the behaviors the platform encourages and rewards. twitter is built for "engagement", which inherently drives conflicts and outrage as emergent behaviors, because they generate more clicks and eyeballs.

mastodon doesn't do that, mastodon doesn't *want* to do that. ever.

@a_breakin_glass @mona anyway this is literally a year old discussion that gargron is just summarizing because new people have been asking about it, for context. it's not really worth arguing about.

@nightpool @mona @a_breakin_glass plus also having layered quotes is *also* breaking the link/context. it might theoretically work if quotes also acted as children linked to the original, but it's a moot point because there's intentional friction here

@trwnh @a_breakin_glass @mona @nightpool Quote toots as a feature should be avoided, but there should be client-side inline expansion of links to other public (&unlisted, I guess) fediverse posts.

I was just answering a question that multiple new people asked me, it's not like I *just* made the decision. Didn't expect this toot to blow up of all things haha. This has been my position since that feature was requested for the first time more than a year ago

@Gargron I didn't know a decision has been made against this feature so it's great you tooted

>changes position on search which is still easily abusable by admins
>refuses to budge in position on something even less abusable

le wat