#imagedescription

1 post1 participant0 posts today

FiXato<a href="https://mastodon.social/@ottaross" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@ottaross</a> may I present the late <a href="https://toot.cat/tags/ShivaTheMeerkat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#ShivaTheMeerkat</a> aka <a href="https://toot.cat/tags/ShivaTheCat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#ShivaTheCat</a> ? 😅(<a href="https://toot.cat/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#ImageDescription</a>: a cat standing upright on her hind legs in front of a window, with her front paws pulled up against her body as if she were a Meerkat. Flowers and a lava lamp can be seen on either side of her.)

FiXato<a href="https://toot.cat/@woozle" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@woozle</a> reminds me of this <a href="https://toot.cat/tags/comic" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#comic</a><a href="https://toot.cat/tags/DescribedMedia" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#DescribedMedia</a> <a href="https://toot.cat/tags/imageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#imageDescription</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://nerdculture.de/@annam" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Anna Maier</a> I don't know what constitutes a "good" example in your opinion, but I've got two examples of how bad AI is at describing images with extremely obscure niche content, much less explaining them. In both cases, I had the <a href="https://llava.hliu.cc/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Large Language and Vision Assistant</a> describe one of my images, always a rendering from within a 3-D virtual world. And then I compared it with a description of the same image of my own. That said, I didn't compare the AI description with my short description in the alt-text. I went all the way and compared it with my long description in the post, tens of thousands of characters long, which includes extensive explanations of things that the average viewer is unlikely to be familiar with. This is what I consider the benchmark. Also, I fed the image at the resolution at which I posted it, 800x533 pixels, to the AI. But I myself didn't describe the image by looking at the image. I described it by looking around in-world. If an AI can't zoom in indefinitely and look around obstacles, and it can't, it's actually a disadvantage on the side of the AI and not an unfair advantage on my side. So without further ado, exhibit A: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/db8f9353-e126-49b2-ad06-87c5e1df8d00" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">This post</a> contains <ul><li>an image with an alt-text that I've written myself (1,064 characters, including only 382 characters of description and 681 characters of explanation where the long description can be found),</li><li>the image description that I had LLaVA generate for me (558 characters)</li><li>my own long and detailed description (25,271 characters)</li></ul>The immediate follow-up comment dissects and reviews LLaVA's description and reveals where LLaVA was too vague, where LLaVA was outright wrong and what LLaVA didn't mention although it should have. If you've got some more time, exhibit B: Technically, all this is in one thread. But for your convenience, I'll link to the individual messages. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Here is the start post</a> with <ul><li>an image with precisely 1,500 characters of alt-text, including 1,402 characters of visual description and 997 characters mentioning the long description in the post, all written by myself</li><li>my own long and detailed image description (60,553 characters)</li></ul> <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/69317442-c4b7-4dc2-beed-38438abfc50a" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Here is the comment with the AI description</a> (1,120 characters; I've asked for a detailed description). <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/451d2f06-7746-4227-a043-76a959420c29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Here is the immediate follow-up comment with my review of the AI description.</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AI" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AI</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LLaVA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LLaVA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AIVsHuman" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AIVsHuman</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HumanVsAI" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">HumanVsAI</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.online/@sunflowerinrain" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">sunflowerinrain</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.green/@Tarnport" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tarnport</a> From what I've read, a digital photograph is considered the default. So for brevity reasons, it must not be mentioned. Any other media must be mentioned, whether it's a painting, a screenshot from a social media app, a scanned analogue photograph, a flowchart, a CAD blueprint, a 3-D rendering or whatever. But an alt-text must never start with "Image of", "Picture of" or "Photo of". That's considered bad style and a waste of characters and screen-reading time. If the medium is not mentioned, digital photograph falls into its place as a default. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Herzleid<a href="https://sunny.garden/@ProofreaderNick" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@ProofreaderNick</a> <a href="https://wandering.shop/tags/Alt4You" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Alt4You</a> <a href="https://wandering.shop/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#ImageDescription</a> The sticker is on a back seat window of a car. It features a cartoon-style white goose driving a toy car with the license plate "BR3AD". The goose pokes their head out the open toy car windscreen and says "Honk! Honk!"The OP is a play on the popular game app "Untitled Goose Game".

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@landelare" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Laura</a> @<a href="https://mementomori.social/@rolle" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Roni Laukkarinen</a> Depends on the effort per post. It's one thing if it takes you no more than two minutes to describe one image, any image. But my own current standards for myself require me to invest several hours into description and explanation for a meme post based on a standard template. For one of my original images, I would need two days now. I would because I can't properly describe at least some of my old images. They're pictures of the past. What they show is no longer there. This means that I can no longer source all the detail informations necessary for an image description on my current level. In fact, my current level, my current standard isn't even really defined. I'm working on a new series of image posts, I have been since last year. And I may or may not try something new, namely long image descriptions (not to be confused with the short image descriptions in the alt-texts) in little HTML files linked into the post. As long as I don't know if that's actually better than putting the long descriptions directly into the post, inflating it to a titanic size, I can't touch older posts anyway. That is, if I added a full set of image descriptions to each one of my oldest images, I would also have to go and upgrade my more recent image descriptions to my current standard. I don't want the quality of my image descriptions to tank at some point two years ago. While I'm at it, I'd generally have to upgrade all my old posts in several ways. Placement of hashtags. Choice of hashtags, especially filter-triggering hashtags. Mastodon-style content warnings in the summary field, along with summaries, especially for any and all posts and comments that exceed 500 characters. Trouble is, Mastodon doesn't understand edits from Hubzilla. All posts would go out to my hundreds of Mastodon connections on countless instances once more as brand-new. This would be extra awkward for posts about events that were years ago. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hashtag</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtags" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hashtags</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">HashtagMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWHashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWHashtagMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CW" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CW</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWs" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWs</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarning" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ContentWarning</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarnings" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ContentWarnings</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarningMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ContentWarningMeta</a>

Kevin Karhan :verified:<a href="https://pl.kotobank.ch/users/vaartis" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@vaartis</a> <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#AltText</a> is missing.<ul><li><a href="https://infosec.space/tags/plzfix" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#plzfix</a> by adding an <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#ImageDescription</a>.</li></ul><a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Protip" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Protip</a>: MIME-Types are not an image description!

Herzleid<a href="https://mastodonsweden.se/@nikolar" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@nikolar</a> <a href="https://wandering.shop/tags/Alt4You" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Alt4You</a> <a href="https://wandering.shop/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#ImageDescription</a> A majestic photo of a magpie atop her nest at the top of a telephone pole. The nest is made from intricately woven twigs and branches, then decorated by a lot of shiny glittering items, chains, pendants, necklaces, key chains, bracelets, something that looks like a pocket watch… It's the epitome of magpie opulence.

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@zulutoo" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">zulu 🇨🇭</a> Reminds me of when I was working on <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">this image post</a>. I had spent two solid days researching for and describing the first image. Now I wanted to take on another image of the same scenery, but as an aerial view from a very different angle. So I took some closer looks at parts that are invisible in the first image. As it turned out, there is a picture of a human face with eyes inside the building that is invisible in the first image, but that ended up on a visible surface in the second image and therefore counted as visible. This meant I had to pull all stops necessary to prevent an eye contact trigger. However, I had absolutely no means of keeping the image from jumping right into the faces of Mastodon users. I could have made my fellow Hubzilla users click up to four times until they'd see the image, but not a single one of these measures would have translated to Mastodon. I immediately decided against adding the image to the post, discarded the early work-in-progress image description and saved a whole lot of hours of research and describing. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=EyeContact" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">EyeContact</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://floofyand.gay/@snow" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Snow</a> @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> You really can't. And in fact, it's getting increasingly harder to satisfy the alt-text police. They've gone from sanctioning missing alt-text to sanctioning completely useless alt-text (e.g. random gibberish) to sanctioning uninformative alt-text ("Image") to sanctioning not sufficiently informative alt-text (that's missing details or elements which they think must be described) as well as sanctioning faulty or inaccurate alt-text. What <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/99e1244a-d6f5-4042-86b3-cb24a1b8660c" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">I've predicted four months ago</a> has actually come to pass. For this reason, I'm constantly upping my image-describing game to be ahead of any kinds of requirements for accuracy, informativity and level of detail. No matter how big an effort I've put in prior image descriptions, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/486240a3-b8be-4fc4-b65d-97a8ae2a5696" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">whenever I learn something new</a>, I declare them obsolete. I don't even know if I have a single original image post that's up-to-date. In order to be safe from being criticised for not describing something accurately enough or at a sufficient level of detail or in a way that's best for fully blind people to understand, I would constantly have to go around and update all my image descriptions whenever I learn something new and add what I've learned to my image-describing style. Now, I'm not talking about 200-600 characters of alt-text per image, and that's it. For my original images from virtual worlds, I'm talking about two descriptions per image. One is a "short" description in the alt-text. "Short", by the way, usually means around 900-1,000 characters because I need the rest of the alt-text limit to explain that there's an additional long image description in the post itself. And "long" means "exceeding almost all defined character limits in the Fediverse several times over". <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/95b6e36d-7fcd-4791-8cc1-c93e8b9975a3" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Yes, it has to be that long.</a> I have to satisfy neurotypical users who need super-detailed image descriptions and, above all, super-detailed explanations for everything that's unfamiliar to them. I have to satisfy (maybe only hypothetical) blind or visually-impaired users who demand the same chances to explore new and unknown worlds by taking in all the big and small details of an image from that world that fully sighted people have. I have to satisfy those who generally say that image descriptions are the better, the more detailed they are. I have to satisfy the alt-text police by a) providing an image description so detailed that the chances that they deem it insufficient because certain details are missing are near nil and b) adding a second description to the alt-text at as high a level of detail as the character limit allows so that they can't complain about there not being an image description in alt-text. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/9ec11151-ede1-426b-9c4f-84880d9f6edd" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">But I can't satisfy everyone.</a> In satisfying all the people mentioned above, I have to throw other people under the bus. Some may simply not have the attention span to go through my short descriptions of almost 1,000 characters, much less my long descriptions of tens of thousands of characters. And some blind or visually-impaired users may not have the combination of attention span and patience to sit through an hour or two or <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">three</a> of their screen reader rambling down one of my long image descriptions. There's no safe middle ground either. Middle ground would mean that it's still too long for some while not detailed and informative enough for others or lacking explanations necessary to understand the image and its description. Two other possible takes on describing my images. One is that <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/3c34513d-53e8-4386-883d-55f082a45843" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">they might not even have to be described in the first place because blind or visually-impaired people aren't interested in the very topic anyway.</a> It might simply not be worth the effort if the topic is so visual-centric that it's inherently inaccessible to blind and visually-impaired people. Also, nobody cares about these images anyway. (Then again, the alt-text police don't care for topics. They probably even sanction image posts without sufficient alt-texts if they stumble upon them in the federated timeline of an instance that is not their home.) The other one is that <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0f3104db-9874-4c42-bb4c-68fc6cbac8a0" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">posting images about extremely niche topics is ableist itself</a>. If an image shows something so obscure that it requires titanic amounts of description and explanation, it's impossible to describe in a way that helps everyone all the same. Someone will have to suffer. So if you can't describe it in 500 characters or fewer in a way that absolutely covers everyone's needs perfectly, don't even think about posting it in the first place. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ableism</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@Heidiknits" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Heidi</a> @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> So do I for my original images, but in addition to the alt-text. I describe all of my original images twice. Whenever I post original images, I add a long (and I mean unbelievably long) image description to the post itself (no character limit here, at least none to worry about). I have to add it to the post because it's way longer than 1,500 characters, and Mastodon, Misskey and their forks would cut it off at the 1,500-character mark if it was in the alt-text. Afterwards, I distill it into a short image description of usually slightly under 1,000 characters for the alt-text. I need at least 500 characters to tell people on older Mastodon versions where they can find a longer, more detailed, more informative image description, that's why I can't use all 1,500 characters for the short description. The reason why I have an image description in the alt-text in addition to that in the post are the more radical parts of the Mastodon alt-text police that may insist in there always being a sufficiently descriptive and accurate image description in the alt-text for every image, full stop. I can't rely on them being satisfied if there's only an image description in the post, also because they immediately see the image when they're on an older Mastodon version, but not the post text body with the long description. I don't want to spend two full days or more describing one image, just to be attacked, insulted as ableist and/or blocked because there's no image description in the alt-text. The extra description in the post is necessary because I can't nearly fit everything into the short description in the alt-text. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Kevin Karhan :verified:<a href="https://sfba.social/@pinskal" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@pinskal</a> <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#AltText</a> / <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#ImageDescription</a> would make this post at least <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/20PercentCooler" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#20PercentCooler</a>...<a href="https://infosec.space/tags/JustSaying" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#JustSaying</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.teamb.space/@mancavgeek" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Manc AvGeek</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@rayhindle" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Citoyen européen Ray Hindle ✔️</a> Granted, filling the alt-text all the way to the 1,500-character limit may be inconvenient for screen reader users. But I don't think you're overloading anyone. Not if I'm barely or not at all overloading anyone either. I myself describe all my original images twice. Once with a "short" description in alt-text, once with a long description in the post itself that exceeds almost all character limits in the Fediverse by magnitudes. I've once managed to <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">describe one image with slightly over 1,400 characters in the alt-text and over 60,000 characters in the post</a>. It's so long that it needs headlines. And I even had to restrain and limit myself in scope in comparison to earlier descriptions, otherwise the long description would have ended up several times longer. I think I've barely read any complaints on that post, and they weren't because someone was overloaded. In fact, I think I got more praise than complaints, all in all. It's similar with my other image posts such as my not quite as massive <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">latest image post</a> from six months ago. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://chaos.social/@crypticcelery" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">crypticcelery</a> There's generally too little feedback on image descriptions. There should be more praise for really good image descriptions, and there should be more constructive criticism. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://chaos.social/@crypticcelery" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">crypticcelery</a> I'm not quite sure if that's such a good idea. I mean, it may make trying to replace other users' alt-texts with your own ones commonplace. I mean, Mastodon in particular is escalating from going against no alt-text to going against non-descriptive alt-text to going against bad alt-text to going against not enough alt-text. The days of "better than nothing" are over. Mastodon is heading straight for going against any kinds of alt-text that isn't optimal, for any individual definition of optimal. It's dragging the rest of the Fediverse with itself by and by. And if suggesting replacement alt-texts for any alt-texts that someone personally deems less than optimal becomes the norm, you'll end up with disputes and flame wars over what's the optimal alt-text in lots of image post threads. That's because there is absolutely no consensus on what's "enough" or "optimal" alt-text, or if there's such a thing as "too much" alt-text. That's also because people who are interested in accessibility don't talk with each other, neither alt-text activists nor blind or visually-impaired people. Too many people think they have the One True Recipe for describing any possible image. What makes matters more difficult are obscure edge-cases that don't really fit into any existing scheme. Not all images are cat photos, event posters or social media screenshots. There's even less consensus on describing these edge-cases. <blockquote>On the other end: Would you be annoyed by this?</blockquote> Truth be told, it's highly unlikely in my case. If I spend hours or even days describing one single image in 900 characters in a 1,500-character-altogether alt-text and, on top of that, additionally in tens of thousands of characters of long description in the post itself (no, seriously, I do that, and I've got proof), I don't think that someone will come with two even more detailed and even more massive image descriptions and ask me to replace mine with theirs. But if someone came and tried to pressure me into replacing my 1,500-character alt-text with their 200-character alt-text and delete my tens-of-thousands-of-characters long description entirely, then I'd be annoyed. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/@angelastella" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ángela Stella Matutina</a> I'm talking about people who can't access alt-text due to physical disabilities. People with a strong tremor who cannot move a mouse cursor onto an image and keep it there steadily. They exist. It was one of them who told me that explanations don't belong into alt-text. Quadriplegic people or amputees. They operate their computers by poking the keyboard with a headpointer strapped to their forehead or with a kind of pen that they hold in their mouth. They have no way of using pointing devices whatsoever. They cannot move a mouse cursor onto an image because they don't have a mouse cursor. They use their computers entirely over the keyboard. All these people do not necessarily have a way of making alt-text a) appear and b) stay where it is for long enough for them to read it. If you regularly have a lot to explain in your images, don't put these explanations into the alt-text, just because you've only got 500 characters in your toots. Instead, move someplace in the Fediverse that offers more characters (e.g. Misskey: 3,000; Akkoma: 5,000; Friendica: unlimited). #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> @<a href="https://sfba.social/@dbloom" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">David Bloom</a> Yes. Explanations, or any other information available neither in the image nor in the post text, must never ever go into the alt-text. That's because not everyone can access alt-text. And to those who can't access alt-text, any information exclusively available in alt-text is inaccessible and therefore lost. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://friendica.world/profile/dandylover1" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Georgiana Brummell</a> @<a href="https://partyon.xyz/@nat" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Nat Oleander</a> Well, technically speaking, the long description isn't alt-text. What went into the actual alt-text of the image were 1,402 characters of visual description + 97 characters of notice that there's a long description in the post. The over 60,000 characters went into the post text body, right below the image itself. I could have put the long description into the alt-text. But it would have been a nightmare for blind or visually-impaired people because screen readers can't navigate alt-text. Also, Mastodon, Glitch, Hometown, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, CherryPick, Sharkey, Catodon and the other Mastodon and Misskey forks chop long alt-texts from outside off at the 1,500-character mark. Mastodon would simply have deleted almost 59,000 characters from my image description on their side, had I put it into the alt-text. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://foggyminds.com/profile/shiri" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Shiri Bailem</a> @<a href="https://ellieayla.net/@ellie" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ellie</a> @<a href="https://kitsunes.club/@gwenthekween" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Gwen, the kween fops :neofox_flag_trans: :sheher:</a> But if the topic of my rendition of a meme is too obscure, I'll still have to explain it. If I make a meme about how difficult it is to implement FEP-ef61 "Portable Objects", I'll have to explain what FEP-ef61 is. In order for people to understand that, I'll have to explain what nomadic identity is, what the streams repository is, what Hubzilla is and their whole history. This alone will make up over 10,000 characters because there isn't much, if anything, that I could link to. And I'm still not quite sold on KnowYourMeme-level meme template explanations being entirely unnecessary. Or that links to explanations are better than explanations in the post. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Memes" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Memes</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://foggyminds.com/profile/shiri" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Shiri Bailem</a> @<a href="https://kitsunes.club/@gwenthekween" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Gwen, the kween fops :neofox_flag_trans: :sheher:</a> @<a href="https://ellieayla.net/@ellie" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ellie</a> That's my suggestion, too: Always describe the meme image as far as necessary. You may repeat yourself, but there may always be someone who is not familiar with that meme template. What I'm not entirely sure about is how to explain memes, if at all. I mean, if you describe the image in the alt-text, should you also explain it in the post itself, especially if you've got lots of characters to use up? Particularly if your adaptation touches an extremely niche topic that most people won't understand without enough explanation (the Fediverse beyond Mastodon, super-obscure 3-D virtual worlds etc.)? Should you give explanations for the template? For your adaptation and the topic? For both? Not at all? Should the template be explained alone or with extra explanations for concepts included in the template (image macro, advice animal, snowclone, reaction image, 4chan, Something Awful...)? If you can link to external explanations, is it better to do that? Or are external links too inconvenient, and it's better to write all explanations yourself? Just so you know what can happen when you go all the way: <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/8829de04-af65-4fa5-a6fa-438103c7d6c8" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">The first time I made a Fediverse meme post for my new meme channel on (streams)</a>, I went for what I took for maximum reader convenience. I ended up with one explanation for my adaptation, one for the template, five to explain the template explanations and the template explanation explanations, one for the topic and one to explain the topic explanation. All just so that nobody in the Fediverse would have to look anything up. I mean, not everyone is familiar with the "One Does Not Simply Walk Into Mordor" template, and next to nobody knows what FEP-ef61 is, right? But I ended up with some 25,000 characters worth of explanations. And I thought that can't possibly be that more convenient than external links. Currently, it seems to me like people would love to have explanations for everything readily available in each meme post, but if you tell them how long these explanations will end up, they'll nope out and prefer links all of a sudden. If my assumptions should be wrong, feel free to tell me. Anyway, you may look around <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/channel/fedimemes_on_streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">my meme channel</a> and check the alt-texts and see if the posts are explained and the images are described sufficiently. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Memes" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Memes</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMemes" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMemes</a>

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