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From Jason Gunthorpe, maintainer of 5 Linux kernel subsystems:

IMHO the current situation of Rust does not look like success. It is basically unusable except for unmerged toy projects and it is still not obvious when that will change.

Today I learned that my Apple AGX GPU driver, which is the kernel side to the world's first and only OpenGL and Vulkan certified conformant driver for Apple Silicon GPUs, and also the FOSS community's first fully reverse engineered driver to achieve OpenGL 4.6 conformance, and which is used by thousands of Asahi Linux users in production, and that literally has never had an oops bug in production systems not caused by shared C code (unlike basically every other Linux GPU driver), is "an unmerged toy project".

(He works for Nvidia, I guarantee he's heard of it, considering we beat nouveau and NVK to GL 4.6 conformance.)

I guess this is what Linux kernel maintainers think of us Rust developers, that we only write "toy projects"...

lwn.netLinux-for-Rust or Rust-for-Linux [LWN.net]
@lina Extrapolating one developer's words into "this is what kernel maintainers think" is an obvious logical failure and is not the way to advance the Rust cause. The fact that several kernel maintainers spoke out against the "unmerged toy" description makes it clear that it is not a majority opinion. There are a lot of people in the kernel community who support this work.

@corbet The problem is that as people in the Rust for Linux project we get to write all the abstractions to make things work, and that means interacting with many/all subsystem maintainers and therefore just one or two hostile maintainers can successfully derail the whole effort.

I'm already making a mental list of people to attempt to design around and avoid interacting with, and sometimes it's not even possible.

@lina If you approach a large city with a plan to install a shiny new utility system, you will quickly find yourself dealing with a whole range of bureaucrats, some of whom will be more helpful than others. The kernel project resembles that large city in a number of ways. I don't say this is a good thing, but it is a thing.

I believe that the Rust for Linux project is succeeding. Yes, it is slow and painful, but the people pushing this work are doing the right things and making progress.

The city council (the maintainers summit) is meeting on September 17. Rust will be on the agenda, and there should be a couple of Rust for Linux developers there. That would be a good time to have a well-thought-out proposal for process changes that you would like to see.

@corbet @lina it is also not just one developer. Wedson did himself a diservice by linking to the end of the talk. That part isnt as bad as what happened before. Two people derailing a presentation, objecting before even _hearing_. Not listening to the replies and the organizers not intervening

@corbet @lina The level of ignorance of the 'I don't want to insult a language by comparing it with Java but...' guy. Saw self and imagined problem!

PuercoPop

@corbet @lina at the same time the reaction in /r/rust shows how pretty much everyone is an asshole. One just doesnt notice because they are on 'your side'

@PuercoPop what are they saying on /r/rust... do you got link