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@thomasfuchs not a fan of OpenAI at all, but neither do I buy this classic copyright maximalist argument. A stolen car is unavailable to the owner; stolen texts or images used to train models are no less available, they're "non-rivalrous."

Many business models are impossible under copyright maximalism, including much of art, if you believe the argument Kirby Ferguson makes in "Everything is a Remix."

@ryanprior @thomasfuchs I don't think you understand that current claims are that GPT memorise 1 to 1 text. How is this a remix? Just because it produces text which is usually "mixed" does not mean OpenAI have right to have a tool which for money provides other peoples work. And all of that without atribution to original creators.

@grayrattus @thomasfuchs it seems to me that the exact copying (which they call "overlearning") is incidental, and that people don't go to an AI model to retrieve exact copies of things, a use case that was already amply provided for by the previous generations of tech. Don't people find the remix-like qualities most compelling, and the exact copies boring by comparison?

@ryanprior @thomasfuchs I think the "incidental" part does not exist in LLM world since its all statistics and they have not measured this as you call it "incidental" behaviour.

Back up to your mix thingy. If you as a DJ take someone's music and play it live without their copyrights this is a violation and you should pay a fine.

This is the world we live in and OpenAI claims here are just silly. Even when you download torrents you don't sell it on CD to people with changed name of the movie.

@ryanprior @thomasfuchs

Most laws or regulations need to be thought of in two distinct directions. First how the powerless can use it to hold the powerful to account, and second how the powerful can use it to abuse the powerless.

When we see copyright, what we'd like is a tool that protects the powerless from abuse, while not giving too much power to the powerful.

We could be discretionary in enforcing or applying this law, but it is always the powerful who have access to legal remedy.