I receive regular versions of "religion is to blame" in my mentions on a regular basis.
I will again remind people that I saw bigotries just as hateful and virulent rise up in the white/cis/het dominated environs of New Atheism, as I did in the nominally christian home that I grew up in.
I'll remind people of the virulent racism, xenophobia, transphobia, and other sundry myriad bigotries that currently flourish in the secular UK.
It's not religion. That's not the problem.
Humans are.
The sad thing I have learned in my life is that human beings will reach for *any* tool at their disposal in serving as a means to justify their prejudices and their desire to exploit other human beings.
Whether it's science, religion, philosophy, political/economic theory (that goes just as much for capitalism as it does for its competitors among communism and socialism), or some other systematized perspective, they all can be bent to serve the maw of our desire to hate and exploit others.
That root of "protect me and mine and fuck the people who are not a part of my family/nation/neighborhood/race/religion/political party/[insert in-group]" runs strong in us and lives at the root of so much of our fuckery.
"I must survive and my group must survive at all costs. Fuck the people not in my group." selfishness drives this.
Stare it in the face and get to know it well. It's the demon we all live with.
I'm going to toss out one more thing on this thread for the other white people in my mentions.
Consider how religion has served as a tool of liberation for non-white people in fighting white supremacy and the maw of colonization.
Now, tell the people who have benefited from using religion as a tool in their liberation from white supremacy's bullshit that their religion is a part of the problem.
Go ahead white atheists. Try that out.
To this day, I still remember white atheists losing their shit over indigenous people in Hawaii opposing putting a new telescope on top of a mountain that is sacred to them.
Lots of particularly racist comments about non-white people and their "superstitions" impeding science.
Hey, you know what? If someone's spiritual beliefs can serve as an organizing force in preventing even more of their home being destroyed by white colonizers' needs and priorities, I don't have problem with that.
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@timberwraith attacking religion is not productive due to people's emotional investment in the framework
That said, it's interesting to observe the role religion played in colonialism abroad and domestic social control. From the blackmail collected with confession, to belief systems where the leader is a literal god or more commonly has a mandate from heaven (NK, ancient Egypt, etc), etc, most religions tell people to accept their lot in life and not make waves, because justice is coming
@timberwraith people oversimplify things, but the memeplexes of religion have been formed by pressures to control society and reinforce themselves
Most people attacking "religion" are selective about it. And it's almost never strategic. So I accept your point. But, I also see how they tend to be viral, and how they have been bent / used to enable control by small groups.
Maybe they should attack the concept of religious authority, instead
@timberwraith to address the UK example, it is interesting to consider the founding of the anglican church in a sociopolitical context. It is also of note that it is still the national religion, and the king is it's head. He has a divine authority on the aisles, as many kings have across their domains throughout history.
An authority which cannot be questioned. Epistemic authority. Ontological. Aesthetic. Moral. Transcendent, spiritual authority, dominating the mind, reinforcing his position.
@timberwraith I may have had an "oh shit, errthang's a psyop" moment a few years ago lol
But memetics are fun! The guy who founded the field is a jackass though, and ironically lacks the training to engage with it.
Geneticists should NOT pretend they're sociologists. Or whatever Dawkins thinks he's doing. His superego has clearly been captured by the memes he conceptualized
@timberwraith
Gods damn the caucasity!
@timberwraith@mastodon.social I feel like I recall some of the scientists at the time saying that it wasn't an exceptional place to put a telescope.
Just for instance African American religion played a huge role in the centuries-long self-liberation of American slaves.
@timberwraith I feel like the underlying issue is with people's superego
Like, they internalize an identity, and then any critique of it is treated as an attack on their extended self. It enables the kind of parasocial cuckery the ultra wealthy require to exploit us, because it provides an emotional bulwark to the structures (both economic and memetic) which reinforce their position
@cykonot Great point. I agree.
@cykonot @timberwraith
Most our flaws come down to superego or id but society kinda places a premium on punishing the id motivated flaws.
@timberwraith Religion is a part of the problem for sure, it's a tool that's been justifying hierarchies for millennia.
It's not the whole problem of course.
I'd be comfortable saying that the world would be a better place without religion.
It's true that people indeed do appeal to their religiosity or their lack of religiosity to justify feeling better than the other.